|
|
Post by Hordini on Sept 3, 2018 16:16:56 GMT -5
But as to what makes someone's country a shithole? Opening the borders is treating a symptom. It's dabbing the dribbling blood from a wound and ignoring the wound itself. Treat the wound first, then there will be no oozing blood to dab up. What do you think needs to be done to "treat the wound" so to speak? |
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Sept 3, 2018 16:18:36 GMT -5
Just accept it bro. It's part of the charm of this place. Along with the pics of dicks chained together that we can't unsee or delete. Exactly! I have a feeling you're going to fit right in here. |
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Sept 3, 2018 16:19:31 GMT -5
Just accept it bro. It's part of the charm of this place. Vintage. I dig it.
Except more than I do actual 'vintage', which is just pretentiousness. "Hey bro, check out my vintage tee shirt" - guy that spends $55.00 on a T-shirt that looks like my Dad wore it to work on a rig for a year.
The advantage of the vintage forum software, as opposed to the $55.00 vintage t-shirt, is we're spending $0 to keep this place up and running. |
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:22:19 GMT -5
What do you think needs to be done to "treat the wound" so to speak? Wounds* And a lot. A lot more than any single person on a message board could ever put together, and I say this acknowledging that it's probably not possible to fix MOST of it, and certainly not ALL of it.
Country A can't fix Country B by taking in all the 'refugees' or 'migrants'. Country B is still going to be a shithole until it fixes its problems- and the international community might need to do a little to help with that. But if 'helping' Country B means we have to let its people all live in Country A... we risk turning large portions of Country A into the same shithole that Country B was. And no one wants that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Sept 3, 2018 16:24:40 GMT -5
What do you think needs to be done to "treat the wound" so to speak? Wounds* And a lot. A lot more than any single person on a message board could ever put together, and I say this acknowledging that it's probably not possible to fix MOST of it, and certainly not ALL of it.
Country A can't fix Country B by taking in all the 'refugees' or 'migrants'. Country B is still going to be a shithole until it fixes its problems- and the international community might need to do a little to help with that. But if 'helping' Country B means we have to let its people all live in Country A... we risk turning large portions of Country A into the same shithole that Country B was. And no one wants that.
So basically, we should approach it as a global issue rather than just an issue of individual countries? That sounds like it will be challenging (I know, it already is). |
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:29:13 GMT -5
So basically, we should approach it as a global issue rather than just an issue of individual countries? That sounds like it will be challenging (I know, it already is). Yep. And we also have to be strong enough to admit we can't legislate every problem away. That we might even have to put some warheads to foreheads in some of the more nasty places.
I don't have the solution, and if I did I'd probably not be on this forum wasting precious time. Hell, I'd probably be shot already.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrmystic on Sept 3, 2018 16:32:28 GMT -5
The problem is that doing that essentially means adopting the 'West knows Best' attitude that prevailed through the nineteenth century. Not sure it's the best way of doing things. Isolationism ain't such a bad thing; especially not when people feel like you owe them $330 million for nothing, and not giving it to them is 'assaulting' them.
|
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:35:43 GMT -5
The problem is that doing that essentially means adopting the 'West knows Best' attitude that prevailed through the nineteenth century. Not sure it's the best way of doing things. Isolationism ain't such a bad thing; especially not when people feel like you owe them $330 million for nothing, and not giving it to them is 'assaulting' them. Overall, the exact worst places we're talking about are 'part of the west' (see: Mexico, parts of South and Central America) or places that are essentially hundreds of years behind everyone else because they're theocracies. I don't think it's hard for the rest of the world to wrap their minds around 'equal rights for all persons', and no amount to pointing at some Middle Eastern book of fairy tales is going to justify anything against Equal Rights for all persons. |
|
|
|
Post by mrmystic on Sept 3, 2018 16:41:57 GMT -5
'Equal rights for all people' is a pretty new concept. Many people in the West have still yet to grasp it. Trying to export it is just the latest new evangelical crusade to convince the rest of the world that the Western perception of things is the 'correct', 'modern' one.
I think it's the best, but that's because I grew up in it. It's the denial of people (not targeting anyone here) that we're just continuing the same trend that's been going for the last few centuries which amuses me. 'No, this time it's not us trying to force our ideas on everyone because these rights are for everyone! Except the people we disagree with, who are BAD people and need to be hit with missiles!'
|
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:45:57 GMT -5
'Equal rights for all people' is a pretty new concept. Many people in the West have still yet to grasp it. Trying to export it is just the latest new evangelical crusade to convince the rest of the world that the Western perception of things is the 'correct', 'modern' one. I think it's the best, but that's because I grew up in it. It's the denial of people (not targeting anyone here) that we're just continuing the same trend that's been going for the last few centuries which amuses me. 'No, this time it's not us trying to force our ideas on everyone because these rights are for everyone! Except the people we disagree with, who are BAD people and need to be hit with missiles!' When compared to civilizations that believe corrective rape, smashing chicks in the heads with a rock because they walked to the mailbox alone, and barring of only specific religious practices... yes, the West knows better and is better. "It's their culture" isn't an excuse for barbarism. |
|
|
|
Post by mrmystic on Sept 3, 2018 16:51:20 GMT -5
That's the point. You see barbarism because your culture has taught you to place value upon human rights above almost anything else. Therefore by your cultural standards of civilisation, it is barbarism.
But to someone from a different culture which places a higher priority on other things (be it the Prophet Muhammed, personal honour, or copious quantities of socks and skulls), it is you who is the barbarian.
It's all entirely subjective.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Sept 3, 2018 16:55:42 GMT -5
That's the point. You see barbarism because your culture has taught you to place value upon human rights above almost anything else. Therefore by your cultural standards of civilisation, it is barbarism. But to someone from a different culture which places a higher priority on other things (be it the Prophet Muhammed, personal honour, or copious quantities of socks and skulls), it is you who is the barbarian. It's all entirely subjective. Cultural relativism can only go so far though. You're right that there is some subjectivity to it, but there are some things that are hard to argue aren't just straight up unethical or immoral...or just plain wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:56:26 GMT -5
That's the point. You see barbarism because your culture has taught you to place value upon human rights above almost anything else. Therefore by your cultural standards of civilisation, it is barbarism. But to someone from a different culture which places a higher priority on other things (be it the Prophet Muhammed, personal honour, or copious quantities of socks and skulls), it is you who is the barbarian. It's all entirely subjective. I hate to be the guy that says this, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Morality isn't all 'subjective'. It's barbarism to cling to a system of believes that places one type of person beneath another because of their physical attributes or something they can't help. We don't get to hold them to a lower standard- they need to modernize, or they'll continue to suffer the consequences of choosing barbaric third-world beliefs. FFS, I'm not talking about people who don't believe in having a business open on a certain holy day. I'm talking about people who believe that raping a kid cures AIDs, and that you can smash someone's face in with rocks for being a woman and getting raped. And don't tell me they "Don't know any better" when you watch these people discuss this or perform other vile acts and record them on a damned iPhone. Ignorance is an excuse for some tribe living in the jungle where their most sophisticated tool is a stick with a sharp rock at the end. Not for people with enough internet access to ask for bobs and vegana or upload a stoning to World Star. |
|
|
|
Post by mrmystic on Sept 3, 2018 16:56:39 GMT -5
To someone from a specific culture, perhaps. God is dead, and objective ethics with him.
|
|
|
|
Post by motleycruesader on Sept 3, 2018 16:57:22 GMT -5
To someone from a specific culture, perhaps. God is dead, and objective ethics with him. Are you okay with rape? |
|
