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Post by adurot on Dec 10, 2020 3:43:09 GMT -5
A.) Remind me what GOF stands for. You’ve been using for a bit and I don’t remember what exactly it means.
2.) They’re.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Dec 10, 2020 3:52:29 GMT -5
A.) Remind me what GOF stands for. You’ve been using for a bit and I don’t remember what exactly it means. 2.) They’re. Grand Ol' Fascists.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 9:58:02 GMT -5
Whemb is over on dakka whining about how mean we all are.
Though reading the last few pages, Lonestarr is definitely making a play for dumb ass. You do realize that the US military doesn't stand a chance against even 10% of the US population, right?
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Post by hatoflords on Dec 10, 2020 11:38:45 GMT -5
Whemb is over on dakka whining about how mean we all are.
Though reading the last few pages, Lonestarr is definitely making a play for dumb ass. You do realize that the US military doesn't stand a chance against even 10% of the US population, right?
Don't know who that is, but he's not wrong. I would propose someone is just in denial, and continues to be so, about their spefic role in making things not work and Dakkadakka's moderation team maintains a perpetual refusal to acknowledge the problem poster problem.
I'm immediately thinking of the HP Lovecraft thread from a few months back, killed before anything could even be talked about because one person got a worm up his butt that HP Lovecraft, author of numerous stories with racist undertones and overtones, was being acknowledged as racist. A mod even tried to redirect the discussion more than once to talk about of the author's actual work and it's merits (really great insight about transitive themes in one story I never thought about it was a really good post). I tried too. The thread remained trapped on an utterly pointless and fallacious back and forth over the word 'racism' driven primarily by a single poster. The Conspiracy Theory thread is suffering the same problem now at the hands of some serious sophist nonsense, but you'll never see the mods actually moderate either discussion as a single user effectively drags it down into a grave.
Dakka moderation doesn't get involved until name calling gets thrown around and that makes every discussion a meager race to who loses their patience with the problem poster first and the only real byproduct is bitterness.
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Post by steelmage99 on Dec 10, 2020 12:04:43 GMT -5
You do realize that the US military doesn't stand a chance against even 10% of the US population, right?
Can you elaborate on that?
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Dec 10, 2020 12:12:59 GMT -5
Intervening just means 'turning it into a lefty haven'. You can't have a discussion forum when opinions are offered from a different plane of reality. How can you even consider discussing someone's personal imagination as just a difference of opinion on a 'fact'?
I'm amazed this is even being attempted by Dakka, as the Wasteland shows, there is no discussion left. When we don't operate in the same reality there is literally no point in coming together and discussing the merits of certain political beliefs. Either one side gets to strangle any discussion with an endless supply of Benny Hill arguments or they get barraged off the board because there is no point in engaging anymore for them.
But as a continental European, this opinion will immediately be branded part of the left wing echo chamber, even I'm roughly in the center in my country (left on social issues, right on economics, sadly due to serious mishandling of the economic arguments by the more left side here...). Being on one or the other side politically doesn't mean forgoing common sense and some sense of civility, but that is exactly where certain US politics thrive nowadays.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Dec 10, 2020 12:21:03 GMT -5
You do realize that the US military doesn't stand a chance against even 10% of the US population, right?
Can you elaborate on that? Civil wars rarely are as clear cut as a basic numbers game.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Dec 10, 2020 13:24:31 GMT -5
Can you elaborate on that? Civil wars rarely are as clear cut as a basic numbers game. I think based on how lazy people are in the US that it's questionable if even 10% would show up. And of course, none of that is taking any civilian self defense/anti-rebel groups into account either. I think if the fascists did try and start a civil war it'd go exactly like the first did. There are more people willing to stand up to the armed psychopaths than there are armed psychopaths already. That being said, based on its current wars, I don't think the US military is very effective at dealing with insurgents, so I don't know how much of a factor they'd really be unless the rebels were stupid enough to hold huge rallies ripe for strikes... Which they probably are.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Dec 10, 2020 13:24:55 GMT -5
They have vanished from the conversation because American conservatism is in internal disarray, and haven't issued their talking points. They literally don't know what to say, because they haven't been told what to say yet. I'm not a lemming, unlike much of the liberal posters on this board. Hillary. E-mails. Benghazi. Pot. Kettle.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Dec 10, 2020 13:32:27 GMT -5
Civil wars rarely are as clear cut as a basic numbers game. I think based on how lazy people are in the US that it's questionable if even 10% would show up. And of course, none of that is taking any civilian self defense/anti-rebel groups into account either. I think if the fascists did try and start a civil war it'd go exactly like the first did. There are more people willing to stand up to the armed psychopaths than there are armed psychopaths already. That being said, based on its current wars, I don't think the US military is very effective at dealing with insurgents, so I don't know how much of a factor they'd really be unless the rebels were stupid enough to hold huge rallies ripe for strikes... Which they probably are. The US army isn't very effective against insurgents abroad. The problem being that public opinion and fatigue are much less of a factor when its an internal struggle. The US can leave Vietnam and Afghanistan, it can't exactly leave the US. When faced with unreasonable demands, you either tear up the US or keep on going. This isn't some Red Dawn masturbatory fanfiction, the US government has nowhere else to retreat to. I feel like the population percentage thing is an argument people in the Confederacy could have made: "just look at how small the federal army is! Its going to be fine!"
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Dec 10, 2020 13:47:42 GMT -5
I think based on how lazy people are in the US that it's questionable if even 10% would show up. And of course, none of that is taking any civilian self defense/anti-rebel groups into account either. I think if the fascists did try and start a civil war it'd go exactly like the first did. There are more people willing to stand up to the armed psychopaths than there are armed psychopaths already. That being said, based on its current wars, I don't think the US military is very effective at dealing with insurgents, so I don't know how much of a factor they'd really be unless the rebels were stupid enough to hold huge rallies ripe for strikes... Which they probably are. The US army isn't very effective against insurgents abroad. The problem being that public opinion and fatigue are much less of a factor when its an internal struggle. The US can leave Vietnam and Afghanistan, it can't exactly leave the US. When faced with unreasonable demands, you either tear up the US or keep on going. This isn't some Red Dawn masturbatory fanfiction, the US government has nowhere else to retreat to. I feel like the population percentage thing is an argument people in the Confederacy could have made: "just look at how small the federal army is! Its going to be fine!" That's how I feel too. If it was the US military vs 10% of the US population in one big fight, they'd probably lose just based on the sheer difference in numbers, and maybe not even then. But I seriously doubt you'd even get 10% of the population, and it certainly wouldn't happen in one fight, or even on the same day without a group like the FBI knowing that there's a multi-state uprising planned... mostly because people are stupid and would post to social media about it. Which of course, means the US military would start working with other organizations like local police or FBI or whatever most likely.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Dec 10, 2020 13:51:37 GMT -5
The point to which you have to push the US to actually have a full scale uprising is so far down the authoritarian rabbit hole that you might get a more Syrian type situation. Yes, most of the population hates the government's guts, but the right people in the right places means that not enough people are actually willing to lay down their lives to shift the balance enough. The conditions of the US don't support it now and with the current polarization its hard to see one side getting enough of a numerical advantage to be able to overthrow the (authoritarian) government if it ever reached that point.
Even if it came to that extreme point, why would people ever stop fighting the "communists" and/or white supremacists. At that point, the other side is an existential threat, people would take up arms no matter how bleak. Again looking at Syria, there is no giving up for the rebels, they can't win, but giving up is certain death versus highly likely death.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 15:44:48 GMT -5
I feel like the population percentage thing is an argument people in the Confederacy could have made: "just look at how small the federal army is! Its going to be fine!" Well, the first major problem with this is that desertion and moral become much more serious issues here. Two, the Confederates would not have made that argument as, to be blunt, at the time the forces of the 'Federal Army' included militias, something their commanders fully realized.
While 6% or more is high for any given war, the US has a tendency to skew higher, historically. This is partially offset by the increasing cultural divide between liberals and conservatives in the US, since, to be fair, conservatives tend to be better armed and more effective with firearms. Due to a, to be frank, cultural aversion to guns among American liberals, they tend to either try and get someone else to do the dirty work, or resort to explosives. These are broad strokes, I grant, but when dealing with huge quantities of people, are generally good rules of thumb.
What I see boiling out is effectively cities under siege. In the countryside, conservative are more numerous, and are operating in an environment they're familiar with but FIBUA would result in a stalemate.
One of the more serious issues is that Conservatives would likely have better access to armor. The factories that produce things like the Abrams are in highly conservative areas. I would not expect them to remain secure for very long.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Dec 10, 2020 16:35:51 GMT -5
If the US devolves into a civil war the rest of the world is going to chime in. I don't see the EU or the rest of NATO siding with the Republicans considering the current incarnation of the party are more or less universally considered complete idiots at best. Part of what broke the Confederates was the fact that no one "you guys are assholes, no one wants to trade with you" thing if I'm not mistaken?
There's only so many Abrams tanks you can build without a working supply chain, and good luck having them up and running when the people who run administration are largely on the other side of the conflict.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Dec 10, 2020 16:54:29 GMT -5
One of the more serious issues is that Conservatives would likely have better access to armor. The factories that produce things like the Abrams are in highly conservative areas. I would not expect them to remain secure for very long. I can't imagine the US Military would just let them take it and not scuttle it somehow, be it bombings or sabotage. Plus, even if the actual building process of the armor AND all resources to produce them are somehow there, the knowledge of QA and testing to ensure they work properly is not, let alone the sufficient ammo for them. Honestly, this sounds more like the plot of some of those wacky trumptard movies
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