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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 23:21:31 GMT -5
You're conflating people demanding accountability for extremist rhetoric that directly resulted in an assault on the national capital in a pathetic coup attempt with the paranoid ravings of 1950s America thinking that Communism grows by cultural osmosis. You're equating actual crimes and a demand that there be consequences with past instances of thought crimes that were arbitrary and not based on anything anyone actually did. No, but you guys appear to be glorifying something that has been used to ruin lives well back into at least the Obama Administration in the US because at the moment it's convenient. |
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 21, 2021 23:24:41 GMT -5
The thing is, though, the only way to stop people from being allowed to boycotting things is state intervention. US conservatives have backed themselves into a corner. It's in a sense the Republican equivalent of the paradox of tolerance. Assuming for the sake of the argument that we agree that people should not be fired due to "cancel culture", we either accept that this requires state intervention through protective legislation or we accept that such firings will happen as market forces push companies to react to (what they judge is) public opinion. To wit; Think of Twitter as a cake company, and Trump as a gay wedding cake.
And even that comparison is kind of shit, because I've yet to see a gay wedding cake cabal launch an assault on the capitol and demand the overthrow of democracy because it couldn't handle losing. It's almost like there's some turn of phrase, that is just twisting the conversation around and sending it spiraling off at random, completely distracting from the actual point.
I'd say look on the bright side and maybe now Republicans will come around to the idea that civil rights laws beyond the Bill of Rights are necessary to protect people from random, dumb fire, and senseless retribution that makes no sense and holds no substance. But I'm not really giving that much rope out anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 23:25:54 GMT -5
So we should never prosecute a murderer ever again?
Except for the fact that a more accurate comparison is 'setting loose an angry lynch mob on someone you suspect is a murderer.' Because that's never turned out badly. |
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 21, 2021 23:35:55 GMT -5
Except for the fact that a more accurate comparison is 'setting loose an angry lynch mob on someone you suspect is a murderer.' Because that's never turned out badly. You really this dedicated to missing the point?
No, but you guys appear to be glorifying something that has been used to ruin lives well back into at least the Obama Administration in the US because at the moment it's convenient.  Me: Violent extremists must be made to answer for what they've done. You: Stop glorifying McCarthyism!
I really can't make it any clearer than that and as already stated I'm done babying the stupid. This is just willfully talking past people at this point so you can be mad about something no one here is advocating.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 23:40:46 GMT -5
Assuming for the sake of the argument that we agree that people should not be fired due to "cancel culture", we either accept that this requires state intervention through protective legislation or we accept that such firings will happen as market forces push companies to react to (what they judge is) public opinion. Depending on the state, in the US, this legislation may already exist, however, in some situations, this does not actually matter. You're making two assumptions: one that the victems are conservatives in the first place, in some cases, they are not, and, in my mind, disgustingly, occasionally are not even actually affiliated with the persons targeted. One example in that Atlantic article is a bakery where the owners daughter said something stupid online when she was 14. Someone set out to destroy the livelihoods of their entire family over that. The second assumption is that they get the right target in the first place. A family in New York lost their jobs because they had moved into a house previously lived in by someone who was being targeted. |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 21, 2021 23:49:04 GMT -5
You're conflating people demanding accountability for extremist rhetoric that directly resulted in an assault on the national capital in a pathetic coup attempt with the paranoid ravings of 1950s America thinking that Communism grows by cultural osmosis. You're equating actual crimes and a demand that there be consequences with past instances of thought crimes that were arbitrary and not based on anything anyone actually did. No, but you guys appear to be glorifying something that has been used to ruin lives well back into at least the Obama Administration in the US because at the moment it's convenient. I don't think anyone is glorifying it. I think everyone here has recognized that it has hurt innocent people, but it isn't pure evil either. It has been used to rightfully harm those who push things that hurt people like Alex Jones, or Fox "News" or the MyPillow shitbag. And while it doesn't always cause long-lasting damage to them (sometimes it's just a temporary dip in their sales or whatever), it is a gradual change towards a society that does not allow their ilk. And again, yes, it sometimes hurts innocent people, and it sucks, but if you're so worried about that, you should also be against any form of the death penalty or prison in general as it might harm an innocent person and destroy their life potentially in FAR worse ways. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 23:49:49 GMT -5
Me: Violent extremists must be made to answer for what they've done. And we have laws for that. We have a criminal justice system that deals with that.
What we don't do, Mr Castle, is punish others because they might not share your political views. I have the distinct feeling you may have skipped a few posts somewhere along the line.
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 0:03:20 GMT -5
And we have laws for that. We have a criminal justice system that deals with that.
I don't see it being used. I see a bunch of empty moralizing, false equivalence, and stupidity being brandied about to hide from making a decision.
Disingenuous.
I'm not asking for Mitch McConnell to be in jail, no matter how cathartic that might be. I'm asking for the people who perpetrated a lie, riled up a mob, and unleashed it with reckless disregard for life and liberty to be held accountable. That's about 5 to 6 people tops and as much as I hate their politics their belief in their ability to destroy democracy when it no longer suits their needs is only part of why I think they should be in front of judges and juries.
You're trying to lecture me about J.K. Rowling having to endure mean fans.
You've spent most of the last few pages making an absurdist straw man argument, basically proving my entire point that the cries of cancel culture are nothing more than an rhetorical distraction brandied about to sucker in idiots, and I have a distinct feeling that horse needs to get a little higher before you suck it off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 0:04:29 GMT -5
I'll stop you right there. Because no, it hasn't. It's been used for petty need to inflict vengeance on people you don't agree with. It's no different, Wolf, than any number of assholes who've taken the law into their own hands, including the jackasses who attacked the capitol. It's a cyber lynch mob. Nothing more. There's no moral high ground for you to claim, no justification that grants you vindication. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 0:07:37 GMT -5
I don't see it being used.
Then you need to learn to fucking pay attention. Because we've been arresting way more than five or six. Hopefully we'll eventually get to Trump himself.
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 0:19:00 GMT -5
Then you need to learn to fucking pay attention.
I will never understand why people like being so willfully obtuse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 0:30:38 GMT -5
I will never understand why people like being so willfully obtuse. You bitched that the Criminal Justice system wasn't being used. It is. You whined that criminals aren't being prosecuted. They are.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 22, 2021 0:32:39 GMT -5
I'll stop you right there. Because no, it hasn't. It's been used for petty need to inflict vengeance on people you don't agree with. It's no different, Wolf, than any number of assholes who've taken the law into their own hands, including the jackasses who attacked the capitol. It's a cyber lynch mob. Nothing more. There's no moral high ground for you to claim, no justification that grants you vindication. Again, you're missing the point I was making in that post. Let me try again. Every single complaint you've leveled against cancel culture can be leveled against the justice system along with a lot more. You may not like it, but cancel culture is society's way of regulating the speech and (mostly) non-criminal actions within itself, just like the justice system is supposed to regulate what the government has deemed to be harmful. It's used to punish those who are overly disruptive (and by disruptive, I mean bigoted or harmful to society like Sean Hannity, the My Pillow asshole, etc) and just like the justice system, it gets shit wrong. Sometimes a lot. Sometimes it gets weaponized to hurt specific people by specific people for selfish reasons. And that sucks because it's fucking awful, but that doesn't mean it's purely bad or evil, unless you also want to call the justice system purely bad or evil. This entire discussion I feel like you've refused to truly engage with us and have been reacting on purely emotional grounds. You, or someone close to you, got burned by it, and now all you can see is how awful it is. I mean, you threatened to storm off and leave the board while calling it an echo chamber because we didn't buy your claims immediately. I think you need to take a step back before reengaging. Actually read through the initial discussion again before talking about how we're all glorifying it or whatever. I mean, do you really think Sean Hannity and fox being "canceled" and having advertisers leave them in droves was done solely because people didn't like them or on a whim? No, it was done in response to them supporting some truly awful shit. Do you think R. Kelly didn't deserve to be canceled? Or Weinstein, or even Trump to an extent? Was that purely bad after what they've done? I personally don't think so. Here's a question, why should society tolerate those who do not tolerate or actively harm society in ways the law does not cover, or specifically does not cover? When someone spreads bigoted views, or anti-mask misinformation, or whatever awful thing they did or said, why should no one call them out on it, and not let other people know what pieces of shit they are (Because that, at the end of the day, is what "canceling" is)? In a shorter phrase, why should society not boycott (as walrus put it) those who harm it? I will never understand why people like being so willfully obtuse. You bitched that the Criminal Justice system wasn't being used. It is. You whined that criminals aren't being prosecuted. They are.
Again, the same system has been used to harm far more people in far worse ways, so I hope you're calling for the canceling of the justice system as much as you are for the cancellation of cancel culture. (Ironic, isn't it?) I'd also point out that the justice system failed horribly because it couldn't do anything until AFTER the violent extremists did something violent. |
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 0:36:45 GMT -5
Post edit:
Seriously?
Well, hope it was worth it. You've gotten that horse all the way up, sucked it's dick, and proven you could do it when literally no one asked, then managed to find your way back to the table and actually catch up with the conversation. Kudos. Maybe next time, instead of pages of making everyone but the most patient Walrus on earth angry at what a shit you can be, you could just say "I hope we get Trump but let's not get carried away and start breaking people's knees for random Twitter comments." Which would still be weird because no one said we should do that, but at least it would be concise.
Who the fuck do you think we're talking about when we say 'violent extremists should be held accountable' and what do you think we mean when we say 'this cancel culture crap is just a distraction from the point?' Cause you've spent the past few pages perfectly demonstrating how one distracts from the point just to round back to the fucking point.
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 2:33:47 GMT -5
Speaking of someone who probably warrants some investigating and time in a courtroom: Ron Watkins who many have accused of being 'Q' today told QAnon believers to 'go back to their real lives.' It's surreal watching the guy who got rich on this banal bullshit, which ended in violence because apparently some people want to quibble about that shit, washing his hands of it as if the whole thing was just a big stage play. Seriously. He talks about it like it was just a day of LARPing. But why shouldn't he? After all, apparently expecting psychopaths who drive extremism for profit to face consequences makes us bad so fuck us I guess. He's got a new project to work on and it just might be the latest and greatest thing since Don Quixote! |
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