Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 23:06:20 GMT -5
If you admit that you won't follow the constitution, you can't demand that people follow the constitution. See... you didn't even read what I typed. Hey...take that keyboard you're pounding on... and shove it up your cunt.  |
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Post by Hordini on Nov 28, 2018 23:41:53 GMT -5
Stop being dicks to each other. We're having a conversation. Nobody on this board is a cancer. Cancer kills people. Disagreeing in an online discussion doesn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 0:03:07 GMT -5
Anything that is invasive and harmful and grows through a healthy society and strangles reason and honest discourse, and then becomes a tumor that smothers the basic ideals of this country is a cancer. It's as simple as that.
I'm pretty sure that most intelligent people on this forum can figure out that whembly is not a physical tumor growing inside of me, and that it is simply a metaphor for the damage behaviors like his cause to society.
I will consider including a trigger warning for future post to warn people who need a safe space or something.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 0:26:53 GMT -5
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 29, 2018 1:01:04 GMT -5
But whem just said there were millions crossing the border! Are you saying the info he got from trump was wrong? That he wasn't arguing in good faith and didn't bother to check his source (and has yet to present anything that supports his claim)? |
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carlo87
Ye Olde King of OT
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Post by carlo87 on Nov 29, 2018 7:56:13 GMT -5
Those two things aren't exactly mutually exclusive. We can still have a lot of people crossing illegally while still having a decrease in overall illegal residency. It's still a problem, just less of a problem.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 29, 2018 9:35:15 GMT -5
Stop being dicks to each other. We're having a conversation. Nobody on this board is a cancer. Cancer kills people. Disagreeing in an online discussion doesn't. I'm gonna be honest and simply say a lot of people think the issue with politics on dakka wasn't the topic but certain posters who constantly dragged the discussion topic into the muck (you can guess who one of them was). It's quite telling that he's got his own thread dedicated to his dishonest participation in discussions. He's over here now, mostly doing the same things, where the moderation is less ready to pounce and surrounded by users who after years have lost or retain little patience for his style of participation and who blame him in part for why this topic was banned from Dakka at all. Especially at the end, when many of the other problem posters were gone and it was basically just Xenomancers, Peregrine, and Whembly making the topic untenable.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 29, 2018 9:38:11 GMT -5
Those two things aren't exactly mutually exclusive. We can still have a lot of people crossing illegally while still having a decrease in overall illegal residency. It's still a problem, just less of a problem. That's not what the statistics say. Apprehensions overall have gone down, which means overall crossings have gone sown. On top of that I looked for a bit and cannot find any source other than Trump for his number. And iirc the US has hit a record low for a decade in amount of immigrants coming to the US. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 9:43:54 GMT -5
But...  |
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 29, 2018 10:11:17 GMT -5
To be fair I think you have to question those numbers in part because how do we know how many illegals are in the US?
We go around and ask people a lot of the time. Most studies estimating how many illegals are in the country target a series of counties and cities, ask people about their status, and then we approximate that out with math stuff sometimes combining it with records on observed crossings, detentions, and deportations to come to a final number. All of that is rather fudgy but it's all there really is.
Except in the past we weren't under a zero tolerance policy, and there's good reason now for people we once relied on to answer the core questions "no I'm not illegal" even under condition of anonymity. It's part of the underlying issue over the census and the citizenship question. The question is stupid to begin with because no one but an idiot would actually answer it, meanwhile we're getting back bad data from all over because none of the not-idiots are giving honest answers to the obviously bad question. |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 29, 2018 10:24:25 GMT -5
To be fair I think you have to question those numbers in part because how do we know how many illegals are in the US?
We go around and ask people a lot of the time. Most studies estimating how many illegals are in the country target a series of counties and cities, ask people about their status, and then we approximate that out with math stuff sometimes combining it with records on observed crossings, detentions, and deportations to come to a final number. All of that is rather fudgy but it's all there really is.
Except in the past we weren't under a zero tolerance policy, and there's good reason now for people we once relied on to answer the core questions "no I'm not illegal" even under condition of anonymity. It's part of the underlying issue over the census and the citizenship question. The question is stupid to begin with because no one but an idiot would actually answer it, meanwhile we're getting back bad data from all over because none of the not-idiots are giving honest answers to the obviously bad question. Im not talking about a solid, confirmed number of people who have actually entered the country illegally (which we dont know, we can only eatimate). However in 2008 iirc there were 1.64 million apprehensions at the border. In 2017 there was only 303,916 iirc. On top of that, most apprehensions were done after they crossed to claim asylum. No matter how you look at it, that's a drop. Apprehensions are directly tied to the number of people trying to cross, bar something extreme like firing every a large number of border patrol agents. In other news, Cohen has pled guilty to lying to Congress. www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/michael-cohen-trumps-former-lawyer-pleads-guilty-to-lying-to-congress/2018/11/29/5fac986a-f3e0-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on |
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 29, 2018 10:36:55 GMT -5
Should have figured that when you commented on Trump's comment shouldn't I? Guess I've been brain storming the other thing too much cause those numbers are coming up in lots of reports.
I'm probably about ready for Mueller to either be done or just get on with it. At this point he either has evidence that the administration did something naughty before it was the administration, or we're simply reaffirming that you know who is surrounded by his own swamp, which isn't really new information. A year ago it looked like Trump Jr. was as high as the totem would go and that hasn't really changed since (unless Mueller has something big but there haven't been any indications he does).
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 29, 2018 10:45:48 GMT -5
To be fair, Mueller's team leaks NOTHING. We can only guess at what he knows, and that it's a lot more than we do. The only time we get stuff from him is when an indictment is unsealed and someone gets arrested, by which time they've probably been sitting on the indictment for awhile.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 10:50:11 GMT -5
Stop being dicks to each other. We're having a conversation. Nobody on this board is a cancer. Cancer kills people. Disagreeing in an online discussion doesn't. I'm gonna be honest and simply say a lot of people think the issue with politics on dakka wasn't the topic but certain posters who constantly dragged the discussion topic into the muck (you can guess who one of them was). It's quite telling that he's got his own thread dedicated to his dishonest participation in discussions. He's over here now, mostly doing the same things, where the moderation is less ready to pounce and surrounded by users who after years have lost or retain little patience for his style of participation and who blame him in part for why this topic was banned from Dakka at all. Especially at the end, when many of the other problem posters were gone and it was basically just Xenomancers, Peregrine, and Whembly making the topic untenable.
The problem there... and here still... is that when trying to have a discussion fees-fees get involved. Rather than simply having a discussion and at least acknowledging that there are different viewpoints, name calling or passive-aggressive posts ensued with the direct intent to stay below the threshold of breaking dakka's rules. Just look at the beginning of this thread. I did NOT come in here with an ax to grind. When i showed up, it's like the dakkaroos were free to be dicks to me because they didn't like my viewpoints on dakka. I live in wolfie's head such that, he created a laughable thread here with claims of me arguing in "bad faith". When it's just me expressing my viewpoints that he didn't like. I tried to engage and patiently explain my viewpoints, yet he has still refused to engage. So... it's nothing more than a large trollfest there... so I will just troll him back. It wasn't me or Peregrine (whom I don't often agree with but don't mind debating) or others that made it untenable. Its a microcosm of our polarized society where you have intractable viewpoints that some folks simply couldn't let it go. It's a lost art to be able to debate meaningful things without denigrating the person themselves. I can do better...you can do better. Or we can continue being dicks and get our willies that way. Its up to us how we conduct ourselves in this thread and determine how we should debate. What is it going to be guys? |
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 29, 2018 10:58:19 GMT -5
To be fair, Mueller's team leaks NOTHING. We can only guess at what he knows, and that it's a lot more than we do. The only time we get stuff from him is when an indictment is unsealed and someone gets arrested, by which time they've probably been sitting on the indictment for awhile.
That's true and Mueller's produced a lot relative to other investigations like his. I'm just ready to be done with it. It's old. It was old when we were a month into it really, and the chances of the earth shattering result some want are way out there for me. Unless Mueller has something real ground breaking I think he's at the end of his rope and investigations shouldn't be dragged out well past their time just because certain people don't like the results.
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