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Post by Disciple of Fate on Aug 13, 2024 6:34:46 GMT -5
Well, I take back what I said before, that is impressive on the Netherlands part. I think that is probably testament to the canny transportation policy of the Netherlands for the last few decades. Re. fraud, within the UK it would just be linked to the MOT. This has to be done annually by an accredited garage and reports the mileage already. I'd also see the taxes being linked- i.e. a heavier vehicle gets charged more per kilometre than a lighter one for the increased wear. Taxation is generally done very well, cars and fuel are a massive source of government income that is going to become very messy in the future. I think the difficulty for a distance tax is that software already exists to decrease mileage on your car. Having it done anually by an accredited garage doesn't prevent alterations elsewhere (so long as there is a believable margin). Fraud just becomes easier to commit once you move beyond a binary car taxation system. We know mileage fraud is already an issue, but as it doesn't affect taxation (only maintenance and resale value), there isn't a lot of need to crack down on it. |
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Post by Peregrine on Aug 13, 2024 7:13:38 GMT -5
Re. fraud, within the UK it would just be linked to the MOT. This has to be done annually by an accredited garage and reports the mileage already. But in that case it's trivially easy to disconnect the odometer so you record minimal mileage per year (and then reconnect it before taking it to the garage for the official reading). |
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 487
Member is Online
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Post by skyth on Aug 13, 2024 7:34:35 GMT -5
Now even Municipal governments are going after the Work from Home Revolution. It's over. There are just a few lone folks in IT and Customer Service fighting a rearguard action on Remote work. Even Hybrid is getting phased out. Working from home allowed him to be a more engaged dad. Now it’s overwww.npr.org/2024/08/09/nx-s1-5046225/work-from-home-philadelphia-orderAs a government employee, I worry about this as well. Right now we can work from home two days a week, but there's the perception that certain people have fostered for political purposes that government employees are lazy and need to be constantly supervised to make sure they don't slack off and are actually working... |
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Post by herzlos on Aug 13, 2024 7:41:54 GMT -5
But VAT in general is lower than fuel tax, so from a government perspective tax income decreases if you spend 'fuel money' on other matters. The difficulty nowadays with the fuel tax is that it is an extra burden on those poorer. Either the more wealthy people can easily bear it or buy an electric vehicle. I think this just ties into the fact that most taxation systems beyond income/wealth taxes are just inherently less fair to those with less.
The VAT take would only apply if the money is only spent once though. Whoever you are paying will probably be paying income/business tax, and so on.
All taxes are going to be a burden on the poorest - with VED they are stuck with the higher rate vehicles because they can't afford to upgrade. At least if it was on fuel they could hypermile to do something about it, but if it's on owning the car the tax is paid whether they can use it or not. I've no idea what the best solution would be here beyond making public transport viable and affordable.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Aug 13, 2024 8:38:20 GMT -5
But VAT in general is lower than fuel tax, so from a government perspective tax income decreases if you spend 'fuel money' on other matters. The difficulty nowadays with the fuel tax is that it is an extra burden on those poorer. Either the more wealthy people can easily bear it or buy an electric vehicle. I think this just ties into the fact that most taxation systems beyond income/wealth taxes are just inherently less fair to those with less.
The VAT take would only apply if the money is only spent once though. Whoever you are paying will probably be paying income/business tax, and so on.
All taxes are going to be a burden on the poorest - with VED they are stuck with the higher rate vehicles because they can't afford to upgrade. At least if it was on fuel they could hypermile to do something about it, but if it's on owning the car the tax is paid whether they can use it or not. I've no idea what the best solution would be here beyond making public transport viable and affordable.
Sure, it depends on how it actually gets spend, and on the percentage of the fuel tax, but in theory you could basically retrieve almost the full amount if you keep having to pay VAT over it. I think VAT and other flat rate taxes will always remain unfair to an extent. Unless you start working on the principle of cars like houses. Here you pay a percentage in tax on the value of your house, so the bigger and more expensive it is, the more you pay. If you do that on a car tax, would that be a fairer way to do it? Instead of paying for the weight, you just pay more for your brand new Mercedes in the same weight class as the person in a 10 year old Skoda. Making public transport free is nice, but availability might remain a problem and it might also simply further restrict car ownership based on wealth level. |
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Post by herzlos on Aug 13, 2024 9:21:31 GMT -5
Tying it to value may work; we already have a pretty hefty extra tax for cars with a list price over £40k.
Or maybe even front-loading it a bit; assuming a car has a 13 year lifespan then maybe double the first 3 years tax and then make all cars over 10 years tax free. Then those buying new cars are paying more than those stuck with older cars but the lifetime tax is the same.
I'd have liked to see something that's based more on income but that's open to so much abuse. Maybe increase income and council/property tax significantly and cut other taxes, but even then people will defraud that.
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Post by pacific on Sept 24, 2024 4:42:54 GMT -5
Cartoon from the Guardian, I think sums things up (at least in the UK) pretty nicely  |
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Post by easye on Sept 24, 2024 9:57:51 GMT -5
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Post by herzlos on Sept 24, 2024 12:37:56 GMT -5
They at least are allowing exemptions from it, according to the article. Apparently people hired as remote can stay remote, and people living 2+ hours away can apply to become remote.
How that actually works in practice is yet to be seen.
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Post by bobtheinquisitor on Sept 24, 2024 12:47:27 GMT -5
They should take pictures of themselves standing on their office doorstep and text them to their bosses, and then just leave.
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Post by Haighus on Oct 1, 2024 5:24:00 GMT -5
If Jeff needs more spaceships, lowering worker productivity probably isn't the way to do it... I suspect that Jeff (and Jeff's various minions) actually just want more micromanaging and control. |
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Post by herzlos on Oct 1, 2024 6:37:45 GMT -5
They should take pictures of themselves standing on their office doorstep and text them to their bosses, and then just leave. Get a co-worker to confirm their boss is WFH and then send them an email saying "I came in, didn't see you, so went back home to work in peace". Boss won't be able to prove otherwise. |
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Post by easye on Oct 1, 2024 8:35:59 GMT -5
If Jeff needs more spaceships, lowering worker productivity probably isn't the way to do it... I suspect that Jeff (and Jeff's various minions) actually just want more micromanaging and control. I actually have read that some of this is driven by the "value" of the home office. You can't claim it is worth X and requires Y tax write-offs if no one goes there. |
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Post by herzlos on Oct 1, 2024 15:02:24 GMT -5
I know the cost of our office building is calculated per head, and the cost of staff in a country has the same figure attached to it.
So if the office costs $1m/year and there's 1000 staff, the office costs $1k/each, and we cost salary, etc. + $1k/each. Those figures are then used to decide where to hire folk, what offices need expanded/shrunk/closed/moved and so on.
So having people in the office makes the office *look* cheaper to the accounting department.
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mdgv2
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 927
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Post by mdgv2 on Oct 1, 2024 15:13:08 GMT -5
They should take pictures of themselves standing on their office doorstep and text them to their bosses, and then just leave. Get a co-worker to confirm their boss is WFH and then send them an email saying "I came in, didn't see you, so went back home to work in peace". Boss won't be able to prove otherwise. Not if like my office, you’ve electronic passes. Kinda hard to prove I was there if there’s record of me meandering through the security doors. Also? My first day in the office in over a year today. Was lovely to see people. But the stuffiness set off a migraine. Thankfully just “wonkovision” lasting maybe half an hour and no pounding headache. Still don’t much fancy many repeat performances though. |
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