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Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 29, 2023 4:43:57 GMT -5
Fuck ‘em.
Welcome to the free market, bitches.
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Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 29, 2023 4:45:48 GMT -5
I mean….seriously. They made an investment. Investment carries risk. They’re not entitled to their investment paying off. They’re no more entitled to customers than any other business.
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Post by pacific on Mar 29, 2023 5:55:53 GMT -5
Definitely agree on the separation of work/home life and having a separate room for work. I think most of the people I know of who have struggled with WFH fall into that area (laptop, on their lap, sitting on a bed for example). Or if you live alone, it's important to make sure you have some face-time calls with other people at work if possible. Basically, just to make sure you don't turn into a hermit, which I found remarkably easy to do!
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Post by crispy78 on Mar 29, 2023 7:38:40 GMT -5
I had a pretty nice balance during the lockdowns, was doing alternate weeks onsite and WFH. Since we've opened back up, the business has moved back to the expectation of 3 days a week in the office (which most people don't appear to be doing) and I'm wanted in the office every day. Disappointing, had high hopes for a sea-change in attitude.
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Post by easye on Mar 29, 2023 9:41:44 GMT -5
As a Middle Manager type, WFH sucks for my job. The most interesting and fun parts of the job were the GEMBA Walks, i.e. Management by Walking Around and talking to folks on the front line. Despite being the head of the Contact Center all the agents knew exactly who I was, knew why I was watching over their shoulder, listening to a contact, asking them stupid questions, and I knew every single person by name plus a few things about them. We had a pretty solid team, despite rule #1 of contact centers that "No one wants to work in your stupid Contact Center."
Now, I have had to change up my style considerably and it is less effective as a Leader, but working just fine as a manager. There is a huge difference and I really am still trying to figure out the secret sauce for remote, digital Leadership. It is a bit harder that in-person. I actually miss being in the office, but do not miss all the associated headaches with getting to and from the office, meals at the office, carving out a huge part of my day for "the office", etc.
I can't go back at this company either. I sold "the office" and put myself squarely in the "WFH" camp at my employer.
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Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 29, 2023 11:51:02 GMT -5
Dunno how you’re set up, but maybe offer “coffee hours” with those you manage. Video chats where they lead, talking about their ups and downs? Maybe have bookable slots across an afternoon, say 20 minutes long, or an hour for a team on a rotating basis?
I have weekly chat sessions with my bosses, and a weekly team meeting. Given we’re all a wee bit eccentric it’s never Just Talk Business. And any manager I might need to talk to Is just a video call away.
Can only offer suggestions though, no idea what will or won’t work for you.
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Post by easye on Apr 10, 2023 10:50:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughts MDG. The issue is that many of the team does not work directly for me, but are still within my management pyramid. I.e. they are two or three levels below me, but the results of the pyramid are still my responsibility. Having 1-on-1 time is not feasible, but there are still other virtual options to take. My fellow leaders are less keen on doing them though. It is surprising to me how much pushback I get for these types of sessions is from my peers. They do not like taking people off "productive" work for this type of things. Second, I do not think they see them as a value added time like I do. Therefore, we have floundered a bit in this area. Anyway....... The latest details on WFH. www.cnn.com/2023/04/09/success/hybrid-wfh-remote-work/index.htmlOh, and probably related to why WFH can not be tolerated! Rich people must never face consequences and we all must toil for their benefit! www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/business/commercial-real-estate-banks-offices/index.html
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Post by easye on Apr 28, 2023 10:46:59 GMT -5
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Apr 28, 2023 11:37:21 GMT -5
It's a shame that no amount of studies or precedent for flexible working will ever convince some companies to engage with it.
Though "Live and Work Anywhere" is going to cause chaos for pricing and competition. Would you hire someone who lives in NYC for $100k when you can get someone similar who lives in NC who'll do the job for $70k because their living costs are $30k lower? Why not stop there and hire someone in India for $20k to do the same job?
I don't know if that makes me a hypocrite, because if I was granted leave to work from home permanently and never have to go to the office, I'd probably move way out into the highlands or islands (as long as I had enough internets).
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Post by easye on Apr 28, 2023 11:43:04 GMT -5
It will probably drive the rural costs and city costs to equity, to the detriment of the rural folks and businesses.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Apr 28, 2023 16:27:47 GMT -5
Though it'll presumably do it by pushing city prices down as well as rural prices up. I wonder if we'll get back to the point where the countryside is just for the rich, and the poor are stuck with the cities.
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Post by easye on May 2, 2023 9:05:56 GMT -5
I really have no reason to believe rural costs would rise and city costs would reduce to get equity.
Once a price goes up, it generally stays up. I find it more likely that rural prices will just rise while city prices stay the same.
Parity will just be met at the new higher level for all.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on May 2, 2023 16:28:11 GMT -5
There must be some supply/demand effect though, if less people want to live in cities then people will likely need to accept lower rents / purchase prices to entice those that remain.
We've seen a few pretty significant house price drops. They are usually short lived to be fair, bouncing back fairly quickly. But the rural/urban dynamic hadn't changed those times, as it's only really been since Covid have workers been able to insist on remote work since it's been proven to, well, work.
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Post by pacific on May 3, 2023 4:02:16 GMT -5
It's a shame that no amount of studies or precedent for flexible working will ever convince some companies to engage with it. Though "Live and Work Anywhere" is going to cause chaos for pricing and competition. Would you hire someone who lives in NYC for $100k when you can get someone similar who lives in NC who'll do the job for $70k because their living costs are $30k lower? Why not stop there and hire someone in India for $20k to do the same job? This is already happening and has been for some time in the IT sector. If you get a software system 3rd-line support, you can get some really well trained/fully certified staff working on those systems. I've read that if in India their pay is probably in the region of £3000 a year - with, by European standards, appalling contracts that see them work all hours of the day. The same resource bought from a developed or Western country would probably see that resource earn in the £50-60k+ bracket, which is why almost work of this sort has been off-shored for many years, and the only non-Indians you tend to get working in those areas are the really high-end consultancy basis, or in industries where there is a regulatory requirement to have on-shore resources.
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Post by easye on May 3, 2023 18:21:42 GMT -5
There must be some supply/demand effect though, if less people want to live in cities then people will likely need to accept lower rents / purchase prices to entice those that remain. We've seen a few pretty significant house price drops. They are usually short lived to be fair, bouncing back fairly quickly. But the rural/urban dynamic hadn't changed those times, as it's only really been since Covid have workers been able to insist on remote work since it's been proven to, well, work. In the United States, Econ 101 was broken in the late 80's. Normal markets really do not exist here anymore.
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