herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
|
Post by herzlos on Jun 9, 2023 17:20:51 GMT -5
This strikes me as likely to be utter bollocks, and probably something managers tell each other in manager training etc with little basis in reality. I wonder if they have any evidence to back up the assertion that seeing someone else get a PA makes a worker more productive? I doubt it. Especially when that comes at the cost of another perk now- getting your own office isn't a great incentive when you were previously working in your own office at home. Yeah, there actually is a pretty decent amount of literate on the subject (including science type literature) and it points to the fact that non-Monetary incentives like recognition, perks, and the like are more effective than cash. 1. No one is supposed to talk about how much money they make in the office, so you can't use that as a status symbol with peers. Plus, getting paid is an expectation not a reward. 2. If you give someone a bunch of money, and ask them what they spent it on. They don't know because so much just ends up getting siphoned off in day-to-day BS for existing. If you give them access to an exclusive breakroom with a pool table, that creates a memory. Put their picture on a wall? Memory. Memories are much more motivational than money. Case-in-point, my wife and I worked at the same place over two decades ago in a menial and entry level role. Once, I got employee of the month and she did not. To this day, 25 years later it still comes up from time-to-time. It is a strong memory for both of us.
I'm not sure if that's a generational thing though. The example I was thinking of is the boomer ideal of having a top floor corner office as a way to show you've made it. I don't know any of my peers would be that driven by that, though maybe we're not far enough into management.
Ditto with perks, a lot of Millenials are looking right through the traditional workplace perks like pool tables or gifts and asking why they can't get the cash instead? Maybe it depends on how comfortable you are. You can't pay the rent with a company hoody or use of a pool table.
We used to get gifts on employment anniversaries, milestones etc, but they were all largely tat to the cynical younger staff. I get an engraved company mug and wonder what I could have got for the $20 they'd spent on it.
|
|
|
Post by pacific on Jun 12, 2023 8:16:51 GMT -5
Makes me think of the series Severance, where staff's workplace personas were rewarded by stationary, a chinese finger-puzzle, or if they excelled, the grand prize of a melon party.
|
|
|
Post by easye on Jun 13, 2023 12:46:48 GMT -5
Yeah, there actually is a pretty decent amount of literate on the subject (including science type literature) and it points to the fact that non-Monetary incentives like recognition, perks, and the like are more effective than cash. 1. No one is supposed to talk about how much money they make in the office, so you can't use that as a status symbol with peers. Plus, getting paid is an expectation not a reward. 2. If you give someone a bunch of money, and ask them what they spent it on. They don't know because so much just ends up getting siphoned off in day-to-day BS for existing. If you give them access to an exclusive breakroom with a pool table, that creates a memory. Put their picture on a wall? Memory. Memories are much more motivational than money. Case-in-point, my wife and I worked at the same place over two decades ago in a menial and entry level role. Once, I got employee of the month and she did not. To this day, 25 years later it still comes up from time-to-time. It is a strong memory for both of us.
I'm not sure if that's a generational thing though. The example I was thinking of is the boomer ideal of having a top floor corner office as a way to show you've made it. I don't know any of my peers would be that driven by that, though maybe we're not far enough into management.
Ditto with perks, a lot of Millenials are looking right through the traditional workplace perks like pool tables or gifts and asking why they can't get the cash instead? Maybe it depends on how comfortable you are. You can't pay the rent with a company hoody or use of a pool table.
We used to get gifts on employment anniversaries, milestones etc, but they were all largely tat to the cynical younger staff. I get an engraved company mug and wonder what I could have got for the $20 they'd spent on it.
You are proving my point in a way. I'll tell you what you would have done with the $20. You would have spent it and had no idea on what. You would have spent it to exist and only associated it with the basic expectation of getting paid for your labor. Now MAYBE a Gift Card to a specific location could have created a slightly stronger memory but the fact that you even know you got an engraved mug is a better memory than the $20 would have gotten the company. Now, the point about "Comfortable" makes a tone of sense. Those same studies show that pay = expectation. If pay is not enough then the company is not hitting expectation. If you think of Maslowe's Hierachy of Needs then those folks are still at basic needs and safety. Things like recognition work at the Group or Self-esteem level. If folks are not at those levels, recognition rewards will be of 0 help in motivating as your recognition is not at the same level as where the employees are. This is a common mistake I see management make with these types of "boiler plate" engagement efforts.
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Jun 13, 2023 16:16:38 GMT -5
My partner won two gift cards for performance at work. We spent them on weekly groceries. I remember spending them on groceries.
*Shrug*
I believe the wage level (in the US) that finance no longer causes stress is ~$90000pa. Theoretically, everyone earning less than that is likely to be happier with increased wage, and people earning more than that tend to be unhappy too for different reasons (lots of wealth tends to screw people up).
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jun 13, 2023 16:32:29 GMT -5
You can earn more than that and still be financially screwed if you have health issues. Even with “good” insurance.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
|
Post by herzlos on Jun 13, 2023 17:13:55 GMT -5
You are proving my point in a way. I'll tell you what you would have done with the $20. You would have spent it and had no idea on what. You would have spent it to exist and only associated it with the basic expectation of getting paid for your labor. Now MAYBE a Gift Card to a specific location could have created a slightly stronger memory but the fact that you even know you got an engraved mug is a better memory than the $20 would have gotten the company.
There is definitely an element of that too, particularly in some cultures (my American equivalents LOVE company branded gifts).
But from the practical sense (and I still put myself in the category of not quite financially comfortable despite earning well), I wouldn't get any more satisfaction from a company mug than a $5 Nintendo mug and a nice lunch.
I've had a few cash bonuses over the years for various things, and whilst I made an effort to treat myself to something, it's almost always been a case of spending 10% on myself and putting the other 90% onto my credit card.
Would I do things differently if I was more financially stable? Probably not, because I'll never be as comfortable as co-workers that are 10+ years older than I am.
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Jun 14, 2023 2:39:29 GMT -5
You can earn more than that and still be financially screwed if you have health issues. Even with “good” insurance. Fair point. Your healthcare is fucked.
|
|
|
Post by maddocgrotsnik on Jun 14, 2023 2:48:49 GMT -5
As my employer is fond of saying, our wage is only part of the remuneration package. And….that’s kinda true.
On top of my salary? We have a really solid work place pension. At my age, company pays in 12% of my salary completely gratis, and match me up to 3%. So for me sacrificing 3% to the Pension Gods, I get 18% in a pension pot. And a tax break I don’t understand on top. And whilst yes we have the NHS, I also get top level BUPA Private Medical Cover, Life Assurance etc.
We also have optional perks. From the standard commuting loan scheme, to a tech loan scheme and tenancy deposit loan scheme.
Taken together, whilst I am underpaid for my role (well below industry benchmarks) those perks do keep me where I am. The pension in particular, which is forecast to cough up something like £34k annual income, which along with the State Pension will see me earning more when I eventually retire.
Still wouldn’t say no to another couple of years of pay rises like the latest one though. Previous executive completely took the piss with tight fisted or zero pay rises. And the idiots scrapped the progression guidance and still haven’t replaced it, leaving folks like me in limbo career wise.
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Jun 14, 2023 2:54:25 GMT -5
The tax break is that pension contributions are taken prior to tax being calculated. For all intents and purposes, to the taxman you look like you earn 3% less and only pay tax on the 97%. The cycle-to-work salary sacrifice scheme does the same thing.
My pension is pretty solid, but the employee contributions are high at 9%.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
|
Post by herzlos on Jun 14, 2023 4:27:56 GMT -5
As my employer is fond of saying, our wage is only part of the remuneration package. And….that’s kinda true. On top of my salary? We have a really solid work place pension. At my age, company pays in 12% of my salary completely gratis, and match me up to 3%. So for me sacrificing 3% to the Pension Gods, I get 18% in a pension pot. And a tax break I don’t understand on top. And whilst yes we have the NHS, I also get top level BUPA Private Medical Cover, Life Assurance etc. We also have optional perks. From the standard commuting loan scheme, to a tech loan scheme and tenancy deposit loan scheme.
That all still boils down to money though; but yeah it does mean that your salary figure isn't the whole story. So you should look at salary + pension + perks, though obviously the bank only care about the salary part when it comes to mortgages etc.
Like, your insurance covers will be treated by the tax man as if you've been paid that money to purchase it yourself. Pensions are a bit different as you don't pay tax on it unless you're in a big earner. So if you're a 20% tax payer and you put £100 into your pension, so only lose £80 from your take home pay.
I get some non-financial perks, but that's mostly just flexible working schedule and a pool table in the office I never visit.
|
|
|
Post by easye on Jun 14, 2023 11:50:42 GMT -5
My partner won two gift cards for performance at work. We spent them on weekly groceries. I remember spending them on groceries. *Shrug* I believe the wage level (in the US) that finance no longer causes stress is ~$90000pa. Theoretically, everyone earning less than that is likely to be happier with increased wage, and people earning more than that tend to be unhappy too for different reasons (lots of wealth tends to screw people up). Yeah, you are proving my point. You spent it on groceries. That is not recognition, that is helping you survive at the basest level of the Hierarchy of Needs. Your company would have been better off getting you a snack box and sending it to you worth $20, because at least a snack box is perceived as treats rather than basic necessities.
|
|
|
Post by pacific on Jun 15, 2023 3:48:42 GMT -5
Sometimes no gift at all is better than a token one! I remember working on a project that lasted for about 18 months, was atrociously run and just about got over the line. It left at least one broken marriage, a lot of extra grey hair and I have no doubt some heart conditions following. As a 'thank you' everyone got sent a small thankyou pack of a small 'stress dice' (with the company logo on it) and a bag of seeds. Some fairly choice comments of what could be done with both of those items followed..!
It was a very poorly thought-out gift, I think nothing at all would have been preferable as it then equated all of the late nights and enormous stress with something that was ultimately worthless, and did a lot of damage to morale.
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Jun 15, 2023 4:11:14 GMT -5
My partner won two gift cards for performance at work. We spent them on weekly groceries. I remember spending them on groceries. *Shrug* I believe the wage level (in the US) that finance no longer causes stress is ~$90000pa. Theoretically, everyone earning less than that is likely to be happier with increased wage, and people earning more than that tend to be unhappy too for different reasons (lots of wealth tends to screw people up). Yeah, you are proving my point. You spent it on groceries. That is not recognition, that is helping you survive at the basest level of the Hierarchy of Needs. Your company would have been better off getting you a snack box and sending it to you worth $20, because at least a snack box is perceived as treats rather than basic necessities. I'm less sure. A snack box sounds like it would probably contain stuff I didn't want, whereas the groceries obviously did. I doubt many organisations would actually check what snacks you like. I am sure an organisation could give something meaningful, but most of the stuff mentioned so far sounds like clutter. We did get gift bags from my employee a year ago- there was a bunch of weird stuff in their like food etc, and the only bit that felt vaguely memorable was the working-through-COVID enamel pin. I don't know where that pin is now. I can't even remember how it looked. I would have much rather had good staffing levels than a gift bag...
|
|
|
Post by crispy78 on Jun 15, 2023 5:12:16 GMT -5
That is something we do get actually. I mentioned previously I work for a major cosmetics company. Twice a year everyone gets a gift box of company products - it varies but generally it's worth £500 or more. You are expressly forbidden from selling the contents, but it's gold for christmas and birthday presents etc. They are always looked forward to and appreciated, even with a general suspicion that it's the company getting rid of stock that has under-sold...
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Jun 15, 2023 5:22:42 GMT -5
Sounds like it is money-by-proxy though- it saves on gift costs.
It reminds me of why wine is often a safe gift*- it is very easy to regift if you don't like or drink wine.
*Notwithstanding cultural or religious reasons.
|
|