The Thread about Goats

[easye]

www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/01/30/1226840156/hey-lil-goat-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-a-happy-voice-and-an-angry-voic

Hey lil' goat, can you tell the difference between a happy voice and an angry voice?

The finding offers one more piece of evidence of the intelligence of goats, say Mason and McElligott — and builds on previous studies he's done about goat intelligence. In one, he found that goats respond differently to a happy goat bleat and a frustrated bleat, based on heart rate and other physiological signs. In another study, McElligott hung two big black-and-white photos of human faces in an enclosure, one happy and one all riled up, to see what goats would do. They preferred the happy face. And they didn't try to nibble at the photo; rather they explored behind it because you know a human with a happy face might just have a snack in their pocket.

Now the two researchers are the first to admit that enlightened goat farmers already know that their critters are discriminating listeners and that they respond well to kind treatment. "They might read a report like this and say I've known this — of course they can tell the difference," McElligott says.

Goats be smart. Livestock and companion animals might not be so different after all.

Also, the full article mentions a goat sanctuary. I might have a new business idea!

[bobtheinquisitor]

We’ve been selectively breeding livestock to respond to our wants for millennia. I’m not surprised they’re good at it.

I’m more fascinated when wild animals show the same facility in reading humans, like crows.

[easye]

Sure, but I think it is interesting that we psychologically divide animals into groups like livestock vs companions, especially when they all have similar cognitive capabilities.

For example, a pig is about as smart as a 3-year old toddler, yet they mostly fall into the Livestock category. Meanwhile, dogs who have a similar intelligence are companions. Then, a crow is very perceptive and smart but are generally not considered companion animals.

Some of it is cultural and historical based on the needs of the time and society. However, we are in a different space now, can and should these divisions be reconsidered?

[bobtheinquisitor]

I’d be willing to reconsider them. But I’m not heavily invested in bacon culture or whatever the anti-vegan attitude is called.

This means we’ll have to set tiers of intelligence or self awareness and decide exactly where the dividing line is between semi-salient and delicious. We’d have to commit to testing the various intelligences of all our livestock, and popularizing the disquieting results.


No doubt many people would be fine eating a toddler-bright creature that recognizes their name (and its own) when heard, if only due to culture war doubling down.

[easye]

Goats in the news again, but this time it is not a fun, silly story......

www.cnn.com/2024/04/26/politics/kristi-noem-south-dakota-book-killing-dog/index.html

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem defends book excerpt where she describes killing dog and goat

Next, the Guardian quotes excerpts of the book in which Noem shoots a goat in the same manner. Noem describes the goat as “nasty and mean” and having a “disgusting, musky, rancid” smell. The goat made a habit of chasing and knocking down her kids, Noem adds.

Aiming to distinguish herself from typical politicians, Noem writes, “I guess if I were a better politician I wouldn’t tell the story here.”

Posting a picture of the Guardian article, Noem said that her actions were not unusual on a farm.

The behavior they describe is not unusual for goats, especially male ones. Female goats are attracted to the smell of the male's urine, and are also very aggressive. You typically keep them separated from the females and alone until you are trying to mate them. Sounds like she doesn't know much about farming and goats as livestock.

[bobtheinquisitor]

While I don’t know too many people with goats, the ones I do know keep the goats in a barn or a pen, somewhere where they’d have trouble knocking down little children. Also, they tend not to shoot their livestock.

[herzlos]

Jan 30, 2024 14:12:20 GMT -5 easye said:

Sure, but I think it is interesting that we psychologically divide animals into groups like livestock vs companions, especially when they all have similar cognitive capabilities.

For example, a pig is about as smart as a 3-year old toddler, yet they mostly fall into the Livestock category. Meanwhile, dogs who have a similar intelligence are companions. Then, a crow is very perceptive and smart but are generally not considered companion animals.

Some of it is cultural and historical based on the needs of the time and society. However, we are in a different space now, can and should these divisions be reconsidered?

I guess it's probably down to usefulness. Whilst a dog and pig are of similar intelligence, dogs will be a lot more agile and suitable for tasks. I'd assume a full grown pig would make an excellent guard animal, if you could train it, but I can't see it being much use at rat catching, hunting, herding etc. I'd also hate to see one hopping on the back of a quad or a tractor.

In a similar vein, I can't imagine it's very practical to raise dogs for the meat.

I'm all for reconsidering the roles, but I suspect we've got it fairly correct already especially after centuries of breeding to confirm it.

[Haighus]

People in various cultures have raised dogs for meat.

The most obvious example of pig training is truffle hunting, although IIRC dogs are preferred because they don't eat the truffles.

[herzlos]

Good point, though I don't know much about the dog meat market in East Asia, I can't imagine it's even close to as efficient as pork (a big dog may produce 20kg of meat whilst a pig about 70kg). A quick Google tells me that at least in Korea, dog meat was popular because of a scarcity of other meat animals - cows were used to pull carts and ploughs so not eaten as much.

And now my search results and ads are going to be *messed up* for a while.

[crispy78]

Supposedly my Dad has some friends from his climbing days who went on a mountaineering trip to Nepal. First place they stayed at, they picked a dish randomly off the menu without having a clue what it was. Turned out it was nice, so they ordered the same thing each place on their route. End of the holiday, they got back to the first place and ordered the same thing again. Owner said to them "Oh, you like the curried dog do you?"

No idea if true, but presented to me as such..