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Post by hatoflords on Nov 9, 2020 12:39:27 GMT -5
A good starting point would be to look at who has acknowledged Biden's victory (they're at least engaged enough in reality to know the party is over) and who is still engaging the Trump meme machine (you can't work with crazy). The trouble will be when those republicans get a primary challenge from the Qanon folks and lose their seat. This scenario played out over Obamas 8 years. The GOP will purge itself of any one willing to cross the partisan divide. Fucking let them.
Insane conspiracy theorists are either going to be purged from the party by the party or they'll take it over. It's easier to run against people who suck at hiding how crazy they are than people very experienced in shameless deceptions. Even better if the Q-Anon crazies manage to beef up a media war with Fox News, pushing Fox News to drop the extremely destructive conspiracy bullshit and stick to more mundane partisan garbage.
I don't know why people are being so dense about this (not you miko, I mean more generally). The Fox News bubble isn't going anywhere. Those people aren't going to be crossing the line and trying is a waste of time and there's a fucking horde of them, way more than anyone wanted to believe. If we can make them eat each other, good. It's the rest the Democrats need to reach out to and it's easier to reach out to the disaffected and naive with something other than partisan outrage. To which I reiterate, stop lets not be dumb. If the Republican party can say one thing while doing another so can the Democrats. Be the unity party that is fully prepared to unify everyone against those who won't unify.
The GOF is making it easy right now even. Go after Republicans who refuse to accept election results and indulge in fantasy. Even if they're solely doing it to shore up their own base, it's nakedly irresponsible to undermine the ballot further after a solid 20 years of undermining the ballot. Stop being nice and stop being dumb. Force them to defend that shit and ask them what's so evil about rule by popular consensus that they refuse to be part of it.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 9, 2020 13:27:03 GMT -5
The issue I have with "Be the unity party that is fully prepared to unify everyone against those who won't unify." is that's not what's going to happen. Biden has been a life-long "centrist" and always given the GOP unasked for handouts, like helping with getting approval for the Iraq war from dems and voting/stumping for DOMA (for example). He didn't get any pet projects passed because of it, and it didn't need his help, and they certainly were not the right choice at the time, but hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.
To be clear, what I'm trying to say is that he isn't a crafty political player in my opinion. He's already acquiescing to GOP talking points with no commitment from them, just like he has in the past. If the dems can find the collective spine to put up a unified front and another front against those who won't, great. But it requires political savviness and charisma I'm not sure the party has, especially with its current leadership.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 9, 2020 21:14:37 GMT -5
McConnell's backing Trump now.
Once this is all over, he needs to go to jail. Backing attempted coups is sedition, is it not? Either put up or shut up.
McConnell, of course, is going to hide behind the defense that "he was just saying Trump has every right to pursue the matter within the limits of the law" as if that is what people are upset over.
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Post by lonestarr777 on Nov 9, 2020 21:46:56 GMT -5
He needs to die. McConnell is the Little Finger of all this and someone needs to cut his god damn stomach open and let him try to hold his life in as it slips through his fingers. But I guess I'm a horrible misanthrope.
In a weird way I'm disappointed that these pussies shrieking for civil war, instead quietly took down their flags and and posters and in one case in my town, washed the fucking Trump banner off their lawn.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 9, 2020 22:30:41 GMT -5
McConnell's backing Trump now. Once this is all over, he needs to go to jail. Backing attempted coups is sedition, is it not? Either put up or shut up. McConnell, of course, is going to hide behind the defense that "he was just saying Trump has every right to pursue the matter within the limits of the law" as if that is what people are upset over. I think it's actually notable the line he's walking.
He isn't back Trump's claims that the election is being stolen or of rampant voter fraud. He's only saying Trump has a right to pursue legal action, which is technically true. It's the same line he's carefully walked the past 4 years in trying to navigate the Trumpers. Which might sound like I'm giving him some kind of credit. I'm really not. The man's a spineless coward who cares more about having power and instilling minority rule than the nation and he proved that by his own hand. But this is a somewhat hopeful line in that it means he's reluctant to back Trump in this pathetic coup attempt. I don't think McConnell has ever liked Trump. Trump was just a convenient fool, and was always expendable from the perspective of the party establishment who is doing what it usually does right now; stand around and look which way the base is blowing. Democrats have reasons to be less than pleased with this election but so do Republicans with now many of their own turned out and voted Biden. They're as uncertain on the right as the left is.
A good example of what I'm talking about is in Georgia right now. The two Republican senate candidates, both of whom are very much in bed with Trump, are attacking Georgia's State Secretary for running the election badly and the definition of bad here is 'because we're in a run off'. The smartest move to make is to jump to the Secretary's defense (he actually has done his job without mucking about too much), applaud his running of a fair and free election in a red state being won by a blue candidate and attack the two senate candidates who are heading to a runoff as anti-democratic Trump shills. Make the failure to adhere to democratic norms and blind loyalty to Trump the enemy and show a party willingness to stand by the other side when the other side isn't being the problem by defending a Republican (who in this instance hasn't done anything actually objectionable) from attack.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 10, 2020 2:26:28 GMT -5
And I just a read a highly amusing idea that would be a completely legal way to take the senate, but is so transparent Biden would never do it and even if he did the senators might refuse;
Appoint the two Republican senators who have announced their retirements to cabinet positions/ambassadorships. Both are from states with Democratic governors responsible for filling empty seats. Simultaneously complete a campaign promise to appoint Republicans and get a Democratic Senate majority. Both senators are moderate Republicans too and may be disaffected by the current state of the party.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 6:16:31 GMT -5
And I just a read a highly amusing idea that would be a completely legal way to take the senate, but is so transparent Biden would never do it and even if he did the senators might refuse; Appoint the two Republican senators who have announced their retirements to cabinet positions/ambassadorships. Both are from states with Democratic governors responsible for filling empty seats. Simultaneously complete a campaign promise to appoint Republicans and get a Democratic Senate majority. Both senators are moderate Republicans too and may be disaffected by the current state of the party. It's transparent, but I wouldn't actually bet on them refusing. Ambassador to someplace nice, like Ireland or, if they're more ambitious, the UK, might appeal to them.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 10, 2020 7:07:50 GMT -5
Why would they not refuse?
EDIT: And I agree that McConnell will hide behind that facade, but that isn't actually all he's doing. He's making a strawman by insisting that Trump be allowed to plead his case. No one is saying Trump is not allowed to plead his case; we're saying he should concede because he is full of shit. By muddying the water like this knowingly, McQuisling is strengthening Trump's illegitimate claims. That is sedition.
EDIT again: "McQuisling" might be the best thing to come out of my autocorrect all year.
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Post by mikosann on Nov 10, 2020 8:44:53 GMT -5
Read today that the GOP is already looking at investigations into the election to try and cast Bidens election as illegitimate and I'm sure they intend on keeping this up for 4 years. They will also use it as an excuse to obstruct/block appointments and judges. They are going to double down on the scorched earth politics that have served them well electorally and led to the election of a morally bankrupt criminal conman to the highest office in the land and divided the nation more than any single figure in my lifetime. Well done deplorables, well done. It doesn't bother me that republican voters are stupid, it bothers me that they want to be stupid.
Dems really need to come together somehow. They need to be able to figure out how to make room for both the moderate and progressive wings of the party rather than go the GOP route of running the moderates out of town or vice versa. How they do that is beyond my capacity for political strategy but I'd rather they spent some time unifying and come up with a plan that allows moderates to run in red districts and acknowledges the very real dependence on progressives in national elections and the popularity of "progressive" policies even in some red states.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 10, 2020 10:59:53 GMT -5
Dems really need to come together somehow. They need to be able to figure out how to make room for both the moderate and progressive wings of the party rather than go the GOP route of running the moderates out of town or vice versa. How they do that is beyond my capacity for political strategy but I'd rather they spent some time unifying and come up with a plan that allows moderates to run in red districts and acknowledges the very real dependence on progressives in national elections and the popularity of "progressive" policies even in some red states. They've kind of already started it.
Joe Manchin was on Fox last night pledging to never be the 50th vote to overturn the fillibuster or pack the Supreme Court. It's possible he's just defending his position as a Democratic senator in increasingly red West Virginia, but it's also possible this is part of a larger effort focused on the Georgia Special elections. It's notably how he tied his positions to the Democratic party and the party's positions however, rather than trying to distance himself from the party. I think it was a bit of both. He was protecting his position and trying to give a small bit of help for the special elections. Persuading even a few Georgia Republicans not to vote (by telling them there's nothing much at stake but better healthcare) could be the difference between 48-52, 49-51, and 50-50 with how close the Biden/Trump race was.
Such measures are likely out in the eyes of party moderates. The election simply wasn't a strong enough turnout to justify going that hard even with a majority. He notably defended the ACA and argued in favor of Joe Biden's expansion plan for it and the public option. The ACA expansion is the one thing on Joe Biden's agenda he can maybe get through a Republican majority senate, if said senate decides to back down from it's total obstruction stance and the Supreme Court doesn't gut the law. I think we already see the party's moderates organizing around what they see as winning issues; healthcare, COVID-19 relief, and 'healing' from Trump.
I'm surprised Collin's won reelection, but she might be manageable as a flip vote in the senate along with Romney. Neither have ever voiced strong opposition to the ACA and both run as 'independent' moderates. Romney I think is eyeing a 2024 presidential run as a moderation candidate, and may see supporting the ACA expansion as a path to the White House. Maybe. It's hard to know how any of these players will act I think because of how weird things were during Trump and how weird they're likely to be afterward. It may come down to how strong Trump's influence on the party persists when he's no longer president.
They might view McConnell as in a weak position even with a majority because lots of Republicans senators have to run for reelection in 2022 in purple states. Democrats will probably see Utah, North Carolina, Georgia, Wisconsin, and PA as places to gain seats that year. Joe Biden will have won 4 of those states, giving Democrats a perceived advantage. It's also the senators elected alongside Trump with two of them retiring (no incumbent advantage) so the 2022 senate map is on its face a bit more hopeful. Democrats will also probably eye Florida and Texas. McConnell cares about his majority more than anything so it'll come down to how his electoral math works out. The public option isn't unpopular, imo. It's trapped like the ACA in general in a largely symbolic game. Republicans are unlikely to suffer for supporting it and they could return to their old strategy of support a law and then turn on it once it's passed but that would still get the law passed.
Suppose we'll see how that plays.
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Post by steelmage99 on Nov 10, 2020 11:01:04 GMT -5
The upcoming Biden Administration is planning a series of Executive Orders to immediately rectify some of the worst fuck-ups of the previous administration.
I am sure Fox News and other Right Wing outlets will instantly complain about Biden's use of Executive Orders - conveniently forgetting Trump's use of said powers.
Remember how Obama was accused of "ruling by Executive fiat" and "ignoring the will of the People"? I sure do.
President Barak Obama (D) - 276 orders over 8 years - 34.6 orders per year in office. President Donald Trump (R) - 193 orders over 4 years - 47.6 orders per year in office. - And Trump hasn't even engaged in the traditional last-minute-end-of-term spree of orders yet...
I am sure it is simply an oversight on behalf of Fox News....or perhaps a lack of maths skills. Surely it can't be wilful and dishonest lying by omission.....by the "Fair and Balanced" news outlet, can it?
Well....we'll see.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 10, 2020 11:04:25 GMT -5
lol
I've already seen opinion pieces on right wing media sites talking about how Biden should 'take a lesson from Obama and Trump and not abuse Executive Orders'... By not overturning any of Trump's executive orders. The circular logic is so ludicrous. Biden actually probably could leave a lot of Trump's EO's alone since a lot of them don't actually do anything. Then he could brag about how he is not interested in ruling by executive decree and cite his lower number of orders for a simple PR victory.
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CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on Nov 10, 2020 11:14:02 GMT -5
But we've seen here with dear ol' Whembles, bless his tiny lil head. Obama ruled by executive fiat, whereas Trump was just getting round an obstinate bunch of 'Murica-hatin' dems. The facts don't matter to the deporables. THE FACTS DON'T MATTER.
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Post by hatoflords on Nov 10, 2020 11:16:41 GMT -5
But we've seen here with dear ol' Whembles, bless his tiny lil head. Obama ruled by executive fiat, whereas Trump was just getting round an obstinate bunch of 'Murica-hatin' dems. The facts don't matter to the deporables. THE FACTS DON'T MATTER. And as I've continually said, fuck them.
Fox News bubblesphere is going to keep being what it is. Stop worrying about it and focus on everything else. There's 3/4 of a voting population that doesn't watch Fox News.
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Post by tannhauser42 on Nov 10, 2020 11:18:26 GMT -5
And it begins. I just got a random text from "Carrie at MDC" from some number (probably spoofed to look local) asking me if I believe the election results to be compromised. My answer? Block Number
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