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Post by tannhauser42 on Nov 20, 2020 13:08:19 GMT -5
I would argue that there are far more than just one "morally bankrupt narcissist" in the GOP.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 13:10:57 GMT -5
Remember back in 2012 whembly, when you were angry with Obama because you argued that he was lying about that movie that supposedly made religious extremists attack the embassy? How you argued that Obama was lying to give himself a better shot at re-election? If lying in order to be re-elected in one instance is a scandal, what is repeatedly lying for at least a year before an election and then trying to overturn the results of said election? Why are you being inconsistent? I already told you I don't support Trump's efforts in his litigation. I recognize that he has the RIGHT to, but I agree that it's futile. But, at least it is being hashed out in the courts, rather than just public opinion alone. The Benghazi ordeal is of orders magnitude worst as you cannot litigate the Obama administration's initial response...it was only fought in the public opinion square.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 13:12:17 GMT -5
Which brings up hypocrisy 45585455482964: why do the Republicans get to decide anything in the Senate? Because they're the majority. Hang on a minute... What's hypocritical here?
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dusa
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 555
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Post by dusa on Nov 20, 2020 13:46:07 GMT -5
I can honestly say that since making the decision to move, I’m feeling mentally better than I have on a long time. It’s still 18 months away, with lots of work and uncertainty, but I’m more at peace than I can remember being.
Which is a weird counter feeling to the PTSD that is acting up more with the reports of forced sterilization of women and the many children that who will never be reunited with their parents. I’ve spend the last couple years trying to justify to myself that I was doing something good by making sure the kids didn’t die and were healthy. But with more of the current administration and supporters moving to fascism, and more reports coming out all the time, I’m just back to feeling like the good guard at the concentration camp. I just think about it a lot, and multiple times a day I just have sudden thoughts and memories of the kids screaming for their parents, pack-and-play kits lining the detention center, and constant mental pictures of bright kids backpacks lining the property room.
And people are cheering this on, and defending it to this day. Meanwhile I feel like human garbage for being a part of the process.
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Post by mikosann on Nov 20, 2020 13:50:48 GMT -5
Remember back in 2012 whembly, when you were angry with Obama because you argued that he was lying about that movie that supposedly made religious extremists attack the embassy? How you argued that Obama was lying to give himself a better shot at re-election? If lying in order to be re-elected in one instance is a scandal, what is repeatedly lying for at least a year before an election and then trying to overturn the results of said election? Why are you being inconsistent? I already told you I don't support Trump's efforts in his litigation. I recognize that he has the RIGHT to, but I agree that it's futile. But, at least it is being hashed out in the courts, rather than just public opinion alone. The Benghazi ordeal is of orders magnitude worst as you cannot litigate the Obama administration's initial response...it was only fought in the public opinion square. Bullshit. His "right" to challenge in courts has been consistently rejected by the courts for lack of evidence and now he is moving on to litigating solely in the court of public opinion-or did you miss Ghoulianis insane press conference? And beyond that, pressuring GOP officials in swing states to give credence to all the shit he has been flinging for almost a year about fraud and delay the certification of counts so they can point to all the poop they smeared on the wall to deny democracy outright and send trump electors in place of the electors for the winner of the states vote. He is well past his legal rights and moving full steam ahead to subverting democracy, all while you pathetic "patriots" point to revisionist history to justify the actions of a madman
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 20, 2020 14:26:48 GMT -5
Which brings up hypocrisy 45585455482964: why do the Republicans get to decide anything in the Senate? Because they're the majority. Hang on a minute... What's hypocritical here?
Tyranny of the majority bad, except when it's not.
Edit: Also, again, thoughts on DeJoy and the USPS dismantling sorting machines when they knew postal votes were going to be at an all-time high?
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 14:50:32 GMT -5
I already told you I don't support Trump's efforts in his litigation. I recognize that he has the RIGHT to, but I agree that it's futile. But, at least it is being hashed out in the courts, rather than just public opinion alone. The Benghazi ordeal is of orders magnitude worst as you cannot litigate the Obama administration's initial response...it was only fought in the public opinion square. Bullshit. His "right" to challenge in courts has been consistently rejected by the courts for lack of evidence and now he is moving on to litigating solely in the court of public opinion-or did you miss Ghoulianis insane press conference? And beyond that, pressuring GOP officials in swing states to give credence to all the shit he has been flinging for almost a year about fraud and delay the certification of counts so they can point to all the poop they smeared on the wall to deny democracy outright and send trump electors in place of the electors for the winner of the states vote. He is well past his legal rights and moving full steam ahead to subverting democracy, all while you pathetic "patriots" point to revisionist history to justify the actions of a madman The Trump campaign has every right to bring the lawsuits, sure, although the quality of the legal work in the lawsuits I’ve seen have been appalling bad, and the judges often seem incredulous in the transcripts I’ve seen. But it need to run its course so that there can be no doubt here. The problem for here, as you seem hung up on, is the publicaly saying different (stronger, more inflammatory) things than are being said in the legal complaints (thereby creating a huge false impression of what the evidence is in the public mind) which is a valid complaint, but again we actually have a legal process for this and the public need to recognize this and let the process play out. The shenanigan has an end date in this regard. For me, the bigger issue is the refusal to allow the President-elect’s transition team to begin working with the government. But, again there are important dates that will force this, as Biden will be deemed "President-elect" on Dec 13 (or 16th, don't exactly remember that date), on the day whereby the electors are certified. At that point, the official transition process kicks in.
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Post by adurot on Nov 20, 2020 14:51:30 GMT -5
Stop asking him questions. He’s not going to give you any answer you want to hear, and the rest of us have to sit here and watch you argue with a wall for page after page. It’s just goddamn annoying.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 14:52:48 GMT -5
What's hypocritical here? Tyranny of the majority bad, except when it's not. Straw man. You're conflating different aspects of how are government works. I don't know enough about this, only that USPS stated that it wouldn't have impacted anything. Even that said, it wouldn't bother me had they postponed that after the election.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 14:53:20 GMT -5
Stop asking him questions. He’s not going to give you any answer you want to hear, and the rest of us have to sit here and watch you argue with a wall for page after page. It’s just goddamn annoying. Who made you the hall monitor?
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 20, 2020 14:55:28 GMT -5
I'm a little incredulous that you, as a self-described "political junkie", wouldn't have more to say about the USPS thing considering how prominent it was for weeks.
EDIT: Not a strawman at all. The ability of the Republicans to confirm judges in the lame-duck season is entirely predicated on them being in the majority in the Senate and completely ignoring what anyone else might want, or what is morally correct. If we apply the same logic to the Presidency then Trump shouldn't have been President in the first place.
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Nov 20, 2020 15:34:07 GMT -5
Just remember, it's not him/his party that's gone off the deep end, it's everyone else.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Nov 20, 2020 15:48:07 GMT -5
I'm a little incredulous that you, as a self-described "political junkie", wouldn't have more to say about the USPS thing considering how prominent it was for weeks. I never fully understood. The USPS stated that it was planned all along, before the pandemic and stated that they could still handle the influx of mail in ballots after this "issue" arose. So, I never dug into the bits and bob of it... and guess what? USPS handled it just fine as there's no accusations that delivering ballots were impacted. Lame-duck is irrelevant in this regard...they're still Senators and Trump is still President during this time as they were voted in for this term in 2016 (Senate/POTUS) and 2018 (Senators). Ignoring what exactly? That Trump won't be President on the 20th? Are you saying that he's not President from Nov 3rd to the Jan 20th because he lost his re-election? Incorrect. Trump won the 2016 election. Full stop. The presidency isn't a simple national popular vote election. That's not how the Presidential election work. You wishing it to be otherwise or somehow twisting it being somehow illegitimate is just wasting hot air over something that doesn't work the way you want.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 20, 2020 16:22:32 GMT -5
The fact that the President is not elected by popular vote does not mean that this is the way things ought to be. You're actively disenfranchising parts of the population because it is the only way your party can hold onto power. The entire point of a democratic election is that the alternative with the most support should win. There are legitimate concerns with limiting the ability of the majority to do what they want, but the American system isn't protecting the minority so much as giving them a carte blanche to fuck over the majority. I'm not saying that Trump did not win under the conditions of the 2016 election, I'm saying that the conditions themselves are immoral, especially when combined with decades of voter suppression that you pretend do not exist. As for not ramming through nominations, I'm saying that the point of a representative democracy is to have representatives that represent the people's will. When the people have indicated that they are dissatisfied with the current President by voting him out, it's ridiculous to accept him as anything other than a caretaker for the transition period to the next Presidency. An executive that continues pushing partisan politics after losing an election is anathema to the whole concept of a republic.
"No, democracy is not a fragile flower; still, it needs cultivating. If the rest of this century is to witness the gradual growth of freedom and democratic ideals, we must take actions to assist the campaign for democracy."
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Post by dabbler on Nov 20, 2020 16:54:37 GMT -5
Stop asking him questions. He’s not going to give you any answer you want to hear, and the rest of us have to sit here and watch you argue with a wall for page after page. It’s just goddamn annoying. Yep. Even I've moved past reacting to him, and we all saw how much I was enjoying that. There's no point, he knows no shame and won't follow any reason, and if he gets cornered he smoke bombs and then comes back saying the same stuff. There's really no point, much better off ignoring it
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