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Post by A Town Called Malus on Jan 22, 2021 21:15:46 GMT -5
I feel like the distinguishing between boycott and cancel culture is meaningless on some point. How does boycotting a show substantially differ from trying to get someone fired? If enough people boycott a show, why wouldn't the employer fire the employee costing them money, against which the boycott is aimed at? This. If people write in to, say, Disney and say that they are no longer going to watch Disney products unless Gina Carano was fired and then follow through on that, then that is a boycott, correct? It is Dinsey's decision to determine what their response will be and it will be driven largely by how large the boycott is and their assessments of the impact on their ability to make money. If you have an issue with that, then your issue is with capitalism. In a capitalist system you have to target the money or you have no leverage with which to attempt to accomplish your goals. |
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Post by A Town Called Malus on Jan 22, 2021 21:20:30 GMT -5
A boycott is refusing to purchase someone's goods or watch their shows, and having nothing to do with them. This is, in my opinion completely acceptable behavior.
Cancel Culture expands on financial attack, including efforts to force them out of their jobs, homes, and to inflict targeted harassment against the subject, their employers, and their families in an effort to force them to either leave or to conform to whatever it is the perpetrators want. This can include murder attempts via swatting or arson in more extreme cases.
Could you elaborate on what you consider to be harassment of an employer in this description? Would organising a letter writing campaign to said employer explaining that you are boycotting their goods due to the actions of employee X be classed as harassment? |
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 22, 2021 21:23:30 GMT -5
This.
It's patently obvious that it is possible to have thoughts without speech and, thusly, that they are not the same.
By all means, continue to take your digs at me, dance on my grave, have your fun bullying the guy who had already admitted he can't effectively defend himself. And, just to drive the point home, I NEVER FUCKING SAID "ALL" THOUGHT IS "ALL" SPEECH! Go fuck yourselves with your false accusations of sophism and shove it right up your dishonest asses. I'm out. For what it's worth it wasn't the accusation of sophistry that I was quoting that part for, but for the self-evident point that thought and speech are two related but distinct concepts. Did you mean to argue that while not all thought is speech, all speech is a form of thought and that policing speech is thus effectively policing (a form of) thought?
In hindsight I can see how my post would appear to be a dig at you; I assure you that wasn't my intention and I'll apologize if that's how I came across.
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 22:19:45 GMT -5
There's always the option that we can cool things down with some dank memes. I feel guilty that I enjoy this stupid image so much. Brobiden memes also seem to be making a comeback XD
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 22, 2021 23:51:57 GMT -5
On the other hand and topically related; Alex Jones is boned. The Texas Supreme Court has denied him all forms of relief, leaving him wide open and utterly helpless to the coming barrage of litigation relating to his spreading of the Sandy Hook false flag conspiracy theory and accusing an innocent man of being the Parkland shooter (I'm less aware of that story, first I've heard of it). In addition to the four suits he is facing, there are six other families waiting in the wings the past few years to see how things go and it's possible Jones will find himself being sued for many other things as this spirals out of control. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 23, 2021 0:43:34 GMT -5
On the other hand and topically related; Alex Jones is boned. The Texas Supreme Court has denied him all forms of relief, leaving him wide open and utterly helpless to the coming barrage of litigation relating to his spreading of the Sandy Hook false flag conspiracy theory and accusing an innocent man of being the Parkland shooter (I'm less aware of that story, first I've heard of it). In addition to the four suits he is facing, there are six other families waiting in the wings the past few years to see how things go and it's possible Jones will find himself being sued for many other things as this spirals out of control. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. You know, going by baron's logic, isn't going to civil court like this basically "cancel culture"? It's taking away his job, money, and quite possibly ruining the rest of his life. |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 1:43:45 GMT -5
This.
It's patently obvious that it is possible to have thoughts without speech and, thusly, that they are not the same.
By all means, continue to take your digs at me, dance on my grave, have your fun bullying the guy who had already admitted he can't effectively defend himself. And, just to drive the point home, I NEVER FUCKING SAID "ALL" THOUGHT IS "ALL" SPEECH! Go fuck yourselves with your false accusations of sophism and shove it right up your dishonest asses. I'm out. My comment didn't quote you because I didn't want you to perceive it as an attack on you. If I have been offensive then I apologize and I shouldn't have used sophism, you did not intend it as that and I was generalizing. There was no intent to bully or attack you, but I see how I could have been unfair in how I used your comment to construct mine. Correct me if I'm wrong, what you we're saying is that people have no filter online, so they blurt out their thoughts as speech without giving it much thought. To finish of why, you and Baron both used the words thought policing as a scary possible future, I'm pointing out that most people already engage in thought policing themselves, by choosing what and what not to post. That's just a sign of civilized society, you do it with your partner, friends and colleagues offline all the time, you filter so as not to hurt/offend/sadden them. But I think we all agree that it should be possible to protect some people from themselves, like for example teenagers. |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 1:55:05 GMT -5
You know, going by baron's logic, isn't going to civil court like this basically "cancel culture"? It's taking away his job, money, and quite possibly ruining the rest of his life. If anything, I hope we get some resolution to the question of where he draws the line or if he really believes getting 'cancelled' (as in fired) should never happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 5:53:36 GMT -5
You know, going by baron's logic, isn't going to civil court like this basically "cancel culture"? It's taking away his job, money, and quite possibly ruining the rest of his life. Yeah, Wolf, because all Civil Proceedings are conducted in the Star Chamber so they can be like Cancel Culture.
Tell you what, Wolf, if the Judge orders Jones' children to be tortured to death, you might have a point here.
If anything, I hope we get some resolution to the question of where he draws the line or if he really believes getting 'cancelled' (as in fired) should never happen. Oh, if that's all you wanted to know, no it shouldn't. Cancel Culture is going to go down in history with the Salem Witch trials because of the sheer number of innocent people it's going to destroy along the way. It's self evident to anyone who takes the time to think it through, but any evidence I present will just be brushed off as 'cherry picking' until some event makes it absolutely blatant that I'm right. It happened that way with Supafly (Clinton Impeachment AND OJ Simpson), Maurer (9/11) and then IronCaptain (Russia invades Ukraine), and then Wemb (Trump).
Let me ask you, how many systems that punish whole families for one member's crimes are still in operation in Western Civilisation? You guys are going to trundle along until something shocking happens, then deny that it's your responsibility, and then complain when laws are passed against it because of said shocking event.
What makes this really bad is just what it takes to shock people anymore because murder and suicide don't cut it.
It should be obvious, but for some reason people always think that they're somehow the exception to how it's ended for everyone else. "Yeah, the last guy that jumped off this bridge fell to his death, but maybe if I just flap my arms harder..."
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 6:52:55 GMT -5
If anything, I hope we get some resolution to the question of where he draws the line or if he really believes getting 'cancelled' (as in fired) should never happen. Oh, if that's all you wanted to know, no it shouldn't. Cancel Culture is going to go down in history with the Salem Witch trials because of the sheer number of innocent people it's going to destroy along the way. It's self evident to anyone who takes the time to think it through, but any evidence I present will just be brushed off as 'cherry picking' until some event makes it absolutely blatant that I'm right. It happened that way with Supafly (Clinton Impeachment AND OJ Simpson), Maurer (9/11) and then IronCaptain (Russia invades Ukraine), and then Wemb (Trump).
Let me ask you, how many systems that punish whole families for one member's crimes are still in operation in Western Civilisation? You guys are going to trundle along until something shocking happens, then deny that it's your responsibility, and then complain when laws are passed against it because of said shocking event.
What makes this really bad is just what it takes to shock people anymore because murder and suicide don't cut it.
It should be obvious, but for some reason people always think that they're somehow the exception to how it's ended for everyone else. "Yeah, the last guy that jumped off this bridge fell to his death, but maybe if I just flap my arms harder..."
Now this is at least something tangible to grapple with. It should never happen? If a important figure in a company, such as at Ubisoft has multiple sexual harassment allegations against them but it could never be taken to court, they should keep their job? If Mel Gibson is making another movie and goes on one of his racist rants in public, he should remain in the movie? If the actress from The Mandalorian does the same, she should be able to keep acting on The Mandalorian? There really is no line? What if a boycott affects the finances so much the whole show is at risk, would it be preferable that everyone lose their jobs instead of the person that is causing this boycot? Once again, you're painting it in the blackest and whitest way possible. Literally no one is defending the excesses of mob mentality here. If you ask, its almost guaranteed that none of us will object against stronger laws against harassment, as the current ones are woefully insufficient. You're just unable to see that there is a difference between getting a person fired and a targeted harassment campaign. For the same reason, I assume you're vehemently against the met-too movement? What the majority of us are saying is that 'cancelling' public personas can certainly be legitimate, what you're twisting that into is that we somehow agree with internet lynch mob mentality. That's like me saying that if you like video games, you must condone swatting, because without video games, it wouldn't have started... There is very little argument to be had, as you're trying to paint everyone here as extremists for things that are in your mind, talk about thought police... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 7:51:53 GMT -5
What the majority of us are saying is that 'cancelling' public personas can certainly be legitimate, what you're twisting that into is that we somehow agree with internet lynch mob mentality. If you don't think that's exactly how it works, feel free to stroll on over to twitter right now. This claim is like saying you're in favor of shooting people, but opposed to guns.
As far as the rest of your post, once Carano is out, where does it stop? Pedro Pascal has said things that boarder on holocaust denial. You can dig up things like this on pretty much anyone who's had a career that's lasted longer than ten minutes.
I believe in innocent until proven guilty. The alternatives are much worse.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 8:08:02 GMT -5
What the majority of us are saying is that 'cancelling' public personas can certainly be legitimate, what you're twisting that into is that we somehow agree with internet lynch mob mentality. If you don't think that's exactly how it works, feel free to stroll on over to twitter right now. This claim is like saying you're in favor of shooting people, but opposed to guns. No, its like saying if you support the second amendment, you support school shootings, because that's what happens when people have guns. The majority are not responsible for the excesses of a minority right? |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 8:24:09 GMT -5
As far as the rest of your post, once Carano is out, where does it stop? Pedro Pascal has said things that boarder on holocaust denial. You can dig up things like this on pretty much anyone who's had a career that's lasted longer than ten minutes. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. The alternatives are much worse. And what about people of Jewish heritage/descent in that work environment, should they just have to work with a Holocaust denier? Because otherwise it would be unfair to the person that is anti-semetic? It sounds like more concern for the victimizer than the victim, these are the kind of people causing toxic work enviroments. And I'm sorry, perhaps if you're too stupid not to broadcast your very real racism/authoritarian behaviour/anti-semitism in the public sphere, maybe you should reconsider your career in a more quiet line of work? Innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with it. Going back to Alex Jones and Mel Gibson there are oodles of video proof. This is not sending them to prison, this is rejecting them from a specific line of work where they actively hurt the participation/lives of others. Nobody has the right to work wherever they want, I don't get to be a pilot because I strongly believe I should be one without qualifications. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 8:27:55 GMT -5
No, its like saying if you support the second amendment, you support school shootings, because that's what happens when people have guns. The majority are not responsible for the excesses of a minority right? If the majority of gun owners supported school shootings, they are. It's sort of like the MAGAheads who sit there and insist that the Capital Rioters 'arn't who we are'. I'm sure that some of you will find that comparison offensive, but it's accurate. You support them, you egg them on, and then when the logical conclusion happens, you stand there and deny any responsibility.
When I pointed out to Wemb that there was an increasing pattern of violence to Trump supporters, he insisted, as wolf is now, that any incidents I pointed out were me 'cherry picking'. People fail to understand that it's easy to pick out the extremists on the other guys team, but not so obvious to see the ones on your own until it's too late. This is a fact that many people have exploited over the years, and will probably continue to do so into the future.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 8:31:39 GMT -5
No, its like saying if you support the second amendment, you support school shootings, because that's what happens when people have guns. The majority are not responsible for the excesses of a minority right? If the majority of gun owners supported school shootings, they are. It's sort of like the MAGAheads who sit there and insist that the Capital Rioters 'arn't who we are'. I'm sure that some of you will find that comparison offensive, but it's accurate. You support them, you egg them on, and then when the logical conclusion happens, you stand there and deny any responsibility.
When I pointed out to Wemb that there was an increasing pattern of violence to Trump supporters, he insisted, as wolf is now, that any incidents I pointed out were me 'cherry picking'. People fail to understand that it's easy to pick out the extremists on the other guys team, but not so obvious to see the ones on your own until it's too late. This is a fact that many people have exploited over the years, and will probably continue to do so into the future.
This is ridiculous, you have no statistical data to back up this majority claim behind 'cancel culture'. The vocal people on Twitter are an absolutely tiny minority in society. Again with the black and white shit, nobody here is denying that actual harassment by an extreme minority exist. We just don't believe that means that everyone should suffer zero consequences for their speech. Its like arguing we should stop arresting murderers, because sometimes you might lock up someone innocent. No, enforce better laws and policies to prevent things from going wrong, don't just throw your hands up and say fuck everything. |
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