Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 8:37:22 GMT -5
Innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with it. Going back to Alex Jones and Mel Gibson there are oodles of video proof. This is not sending them to prison, this is rejecting them from a specific line of work where they actively hurt the participation/lives of others. Nobody has the right to work wherever they want, I don't get to be a pilot because I strongly believe I should be one without qualifications. Yeah, but you're still allowed to have other jobs. You seem to think it stops at being fired or even driven from a given field. Guess what, this follows people around. Let me ask, have you ever had to explain a termination to a potential employer?
This is ridiculous, you have no statistical data to back up this majority claim behind 'cancel culture'. The vocal people on Twitter are an absolutely tiny minority in society. Yeah, again, Whemb said the same shit about MAGAts. How'd that turn out again? |
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 8:41:49 GMT -5
Innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with it. Going back to Alex Jones and Mel Gibson there are oodles of video proof. This is not sending them to prison, this is rejecting them from a specific line of work where they actively hurt the participation/lives of others. Nobody has the right to work wherever they want, I don't get to be a pilot because I strongly believe I should be one without qualifications.
Yeah, but you're still allowed to have other jobs. You seem to think it stops at being fired or even driven from a given field. Guess what, this follows people around. Let me ask, have you ever had to explain a termination to a potential employer?
Again, make laws that tackle the harrasers, force social media companies to participate in ending this sort of behaviour and taking people who go to far too court. Let me flip your question around. I have had to terminate an employee after repeated warnings not to use racial slurs against Asian co-workers once they were out of earshot (the equivalent of the C word referring to their eyes in the US). Should I have let this person stay at our office because it would have been difficult for them to explain why they were fired by us to a potential employer? This is ridiculous, you have no statistical data to back up this majority claim behind 'cancel culture'. The vocal people on Twitter are an absolutely tiny minority in society. Yeah, again, Whemb said the same shit about MAGAts. How'd that turn out again? Well good thing that in the case of the GoP we have surveys to grasp the level of support somewhat right? Meanwhile you have anecdotal stories that are of course terrible, but no statistical proof that this is what the majority of people want that advocate for 'cancelling' certain people. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 8:52:50 GMT -5
Again, make laws that tackle the harrasers, force social media companies to participate in ending this sort of behaviour and taking people who go to far too court. Right now, there's big drives on to do away with the laws we already have in efforts to deal with this.
And, to be blunt, its very hard to enforce laws on the internet, and the ones we have tend to be poorly thought out because they're written by people who grew up when color TV was a hot new commodity and companies can be located anywhere in the world, and even national laws might not apply.
Again with the black and white shit, nobody here is denying that actual harassment by an extreme minority exist. We just don't believe that means that everyone should suffer zero consequences for their speech. And it was this line of thought that gave us such wonders of inhumanity as the brank.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 9:01:58 GMT -5
Again, make laws that tackle the harrasers, force social media companies to participate in ending this sort of behaviour and taking people who go to far too court. Right now, there's big drives on to do away with the laws we already have in efforts to deal with this.
And, to be blunt, its very hard to enforce laws on the internet, and the ones we have tend to be poorly thought out because they're written by people who grew up when color TV was a hot new commodity and companies can be located anywhere in the world, and even national laws might not apply. Which is the main issue, laws made by old people who have no idea how any of this works. The internet is a cesspool of harassment, death threats and revenge porn. All social media companies and hosting companies do is shrug and go back to harvesting data. A lot of accountability is to be gained by forcing social media companies to actually develop policies and mechanism to tackle these problems, instead of just letting them trundle along, improving their data harvesting algorithm V. 1827.1. Lets be honest, this vocal minority is never going to stop, even if 'cancel culture' ceases to exist. The anonymity of the internet protects these people to be the worst kind possible. Even if you can't stop those abusers, we can try our hardest to deplatform them by holding the companies accountable for criminal acts being committed on their platforms (which is what it is, as you describe the targeted personal attacks, harrasment). But that should not prevent me from wanting to advocate for the removal of say, the president of Ubisoft for condoning sexual harassment being committed by his employees. |
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jan 23, 2021 9:36:26 GMT -5
People fail to understand that it's easy to pick out the extremists on the other guys team, but not so obvious to see the ones on your own until it's too late. This is a fact that many people have exploited over the years, and will probably continue to do so into the future. Baron, did you watch the video I linked to, and if you did, do you think it is a good one? Also, what, if any, do you think would be good laws against cancel culture? |
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jan 23, 2021 9:38:48 GMT -5
Also what do you people think about the (south) Korean internet, where people have to use a personal number to create an account on basically every service that allows you to communicate? It doesn't give your identity to other people interacting with you, afaik, but it makes being banned from a service MUCH more efficient, and I expect law enforcement can identify you this way too? Not sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 9:43:41 GMT -5
Also what do you people think about the (south) Korean internet, where people have to use a personal number to create an account on basically every service that allows you to communicate? It doesn't give your identity to other people interacting with you, afaik, but it makes being banned from a service MUCH more efficient, and I expect law enforcement can identify you this way too? Not sure. I'm not familiar enough with this, but what about VPN and such? Afaik SK has a massive hidden camera porn problem online, to the point of phones always having a camera sound on and apps that remove it again, so what does it actually achieve? Do services such as FB and Twitter require it or? |
|
|
|
Post by hatoflords on Jan 23, 2021 9:51:39 GMT -5
Also what do you people think about the (south) Korean internet, where people have to use a personal number to create an account on basically every service that allows you to communicate? It doesn't give your identity to other people interacting with you, afaik, but it makes being banned from a service MUCH more efficient, and I expect law enforcement can identify you this way too? Not sure. I suspect something along these lines is likely inevitable.
The internet as a wild west of free speech and ideas, while romantic and what we're all accustomed to, is probably an unsustainable system. There's too much money, and too much power, for it to remain as it is forever.
This probably is a 'both sides' issue for what it's worth. The moment the left and right began advocating for Twitter and the rest to ban ISIS from operating on their platform, we fundamentally changed the equation of our expectations of service providers in online spaces. Service providers to their own credit, largely tried to explain this and were demonized for it, even though their argument really wasn't 'ISIS good' so much as 'once we start banning ISIS, we're going to completely change the dynamic.' The left began asking 'if ISIS, why not Alex Jones?' Then the right got all uppity because it likes nailing itself to the cross for extremists and assholes. While Watkins may well have pushed Q into an organized machine of madness, I don't think he was the first Q. The first Q (or even Qs) were probably just shit posters, and look what shit posters produced when stupid people got thrown into the mix.
I don't know what it'll look like. Maybe it'll be similar to the SK system (I suspect that system is too 'but mah freedom!' for the right or the left in the US), but it'll be something.
|
|
|
|
Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 23, 2021 9:58:38 GMT -5
Also what do you people think about the (south) Korean internet, where people have to use a personal number to create an account on basically every service that allows you to communicate? It doesn't give your identity to other people interacting with you, afaik, but it makes being banned from a service MUCH more efficient, and I expect law enforcement can identify you this way too? Not sure. I'm not familiar enough with this, but what about VPN and such? Afaik SK has a massive hidden camera porn problem online, to the point of phones always having a camera sound on and apps that remove it again, so what does it actually achieve? Do services such as FB and Twitter require it or? VPNs shouldn't matter if the account you're logging into requires your personal details. |
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 10:00:45 GMT -5
I'm not familiar enough with this, but what about VPN and such? Afaik SK has a massive hidden camera porn problem online, to the point of phones always having a camera sound on and apps that remove it again, so what does it actually achieve? Do services such as FB and Twitter require it or? VPNs shouldn't matter if the account you're logging into requires your personal details. I mean, VPN is meant to hide your location, so you could use VPN to circumvent the SK requirement for a personal number by hiding your country. Of course this might differ between global and SK sites. So for example, using a VPN to make your Twitter/FB account. |
|
|
|
Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 23, 2021 10:04:20 GMT -5
VPNs shouldn't matter if the account you're logging into requires your personal details. I mean, VPN is meant to hide your location, so you could use VPN to circumvent the SK requirement for a personal number by hiding your country. Of course this might differ between global and SK sites. So for example, using a VPN to make your Twitter/FB account. Ah, yeah fair. |
|
|
|
Post by A Town Called Malus on Jan 23, 2021 10:17:20 GMT -5
Let me ask, have you ever had to explain a termination to a potential employer? Yes, but because I don't post harmful shit onto social media I've never been fired for that. In my experience being let go because the company is downsizing is not that big of a deal breaker. If you don't want to explain to a potential employer that you got fired because you were damaging your employers reputation by publicly saying shit like trans people don't exist or that the holocaust didn't happen, or that Hugo Chavez rigged the US election despite being dead then don't say it. It's a pretty simple concept. |
|
|
|
Post by hatoflords on Jan 23, 2021 10:57:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 23, 2021 11:43:03 GMT -5
You know, going by baron's logic, isn't going to civil court like this basically "cancel culture"? It's taking away his job, money, and quite possibly ruining the rest of his life. Yeah, Wolf, because all Civil Proceedings are conducted in the Star Chamber so they can be like Cancel Culture.
Tell you what, Wolf, if the Judge orders Jones' children to be tortured to death, you might have a point here.
Oh Baron, it's adorable how you naively believe in the system so much and attempt to dodge any points brought up or questions. You are almost exactly like despic at this point, and it's kind of sad. You're cherry-picking the minority of voices and claiming they're the majority, you're using false equivalencies, you're making strawman after strawman, and you frequently ignore entire posts so you don't have to confront them while pretending to be the levelheaded person. Basically, you're dodging any attempt to have a discussion in good faith just like despic. |
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jan 23, 2021 12:08:24 GMT -5
I mean, VPN is meant to hide your location, so you could use VPN to circumvent the SK requirement for a personal number by hiding your country. Of course this might differ between global and SK sites. So for example, using a VPN to make your Twitter/FB account. Not even sure about FB and Twitter requiring those on Korea (I wasn't able to find an answer online) but I don't think those are popular in Korea anyway. I think people are more on Naver and other local websites. You can go on "shady" Korean website like Megalia (RIP), Womad and whatever the mascs equivalents are anonymously. But the "reputable" services ask for an ID. Including some western services which have special rules in Korea, like Blizzard's BattleNet : tl.net/forum/closed-threads/280959-how-to-get-a-korean-battlenet-accountSure, you can use BattleNet without and ID to play on non-KR servers... but enjoy your ping  . Afaik SK has a massive hidden camera porn problem online, to the point of phones always having a camera sound on and apps that remove it again, so what does it actually achieve? It prevents harassment on Naver and in video games I guess? The shady websites sharing hidden camera porn are another problem entirely, you have to find who is operating the server, who is sending the porn, and prosecute all of them. South Korean society being what it is, there might not be enough efforts made to shut it down, maybe, but that's another problem entirely. |
|
.