|
|
Post by whemblycthulhu on Jan 24, 2021 13:07:24 GMT -5
Some thoughts about the CEO and the NFL. Assume your employees and co-workers know you have and have found your social media. Its naive not to think colleagues look for this sort of stuff online. Even if you write that you don't believe gay people should have equality (because that's how they read that sort of sentiment) on a personal blog, you can bet that people in the office have read it. Office gossip will do the rest. If, as a gay person, you work for the man and see this post or hear of it, even if he treats you with the utmost respect, deep down you still know that he doesn't consider you 'equal' to his straight employees. Does it then matter if it was on a personal or professional blog, if all it did was create the feeling of a hostile work environment? This isn't some bottom tier employee posting personal blogs, this is the man responsible for your potential promotion, would being gay suddenly feel like a problem at the office? So long as the CEO maintains the "utter most respect" to the employee? That's civility. Maybe it's a product of my work environment and my own bubble in life, but I know of many many gay couples. And in that scenario, most wouldn't care what their boss said on their personal time, so long as they're treated with respect and equally with their co-workers, they don't give a shit. And, I think that's mostly right, as they're trying to live their lives without obssessing of what others think about "gay issues". Maybe that's the dividing line? In that, not everyone wants to be a SJW (I don't mean that as a pejorative). It's just that some people want to make that their life mission (SJW) and others just want to be left alone and live a good life. Now, I'm not speaking for all-things-in-this-area... just an observation of my own personal anecdote. I know there exists bigotry And, fwiw, most mid-to-large companies have robust HR departments to train and address these potential conflicts. Especially the executves levels are constantly trained to NOT do what that Mozilla CEO did, as in some way even "off the clock", they still represent the company. No. Kaepernick lost his job because he wasn't as good at his position for the salary he was demanding. The NFL has no problem taking on players who causes PR problems, so long as that player helps the team win. I agree there is this "line". But, I think one of Baron's point is that we need to be careful how far that pendulum swings. I also don't think this "line" is set in granite... I believe something like this should be observe on case-by-case basis. |
|
dusa
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 555
|
Post by dusa on Jan 24, 2021 14:21:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 24, 2021 14:36:56 GMT -5
Just a last thought on the topic you might want to consider, gay people not being "obsessed" about what other people think of "gay issues" can be pretty tone deaf, when the 'gay issue' is literally being treated equally by law. The fact that it could be referred to as a 'gay issue' instead of a general human rights one (legal equality) is pretty weird, I have not met numerous gay people, but the few I can count as friends don't really seem comfortable in the role of the lesser citizen, even if they are not "obsessed" by it in their 'daily' lives.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Town Called Malus on Jan 24, 2021 15:26:22 GMT -5
So long as the CEO maintains the "utter most respect" to the employee? That's civility. Maybe it's a product of my work environment and my own bubble in life, but I know of many many gay couples. And in that scenario, most wouldn't care what their boss said on their personal time, so long as they're treated with respect and equally with their co-workers, they don't give a shit. And, I think that's mostly right, as they're trying to live their lives without obssessing of what others think about "gay issues". What happens when the work BBQ comes around and families are invited to attend? Do you honestly believe that someone who is gay would feel as comfortable bringing their husband and adopted kid to that BBQ as their straight coworker, knowing that their boss does not think they should be allowed to have the same legal rights? Sure, maybe he isn't rude to their face, but how do they know what he will be like behind their backs? How do they know whether his prejudice will affect their ability to get a promotion, even in an unconscious fashion? How can you trust that person to treat you equally when they do not consider you equal? |
|
|
|
Post by adurot on Jan 24, 2021 15:53:44 GMT -5
So long as the CEO maintains the "utter most respect" to the employee? That's civility. Maybe it's a product of my work environment and my own bubble in life, but I know of many many gay couples. And in that scenario, most wouldn't care what their boss said on their personal time, so long as they're treated with respect and equally with their co-workers, they don't give a shit. And, I think that's mostly right, as they're trying to live their lives without obssessing of what others think about "gay issues". What happens when the work BBQ comes around and families are invited to attend? Do you honestly believe that someone who is gay would feel as comfortable bringing their husband and adopted kid to that BBQ as their straight coworker, knowing that their boss does not think they should be allowed to have the same legal rights? Sure, maybe he isn't rude to their face, but how do they know what he will be like behind their backs? How do they know whether his prejudice will affect their ability to get a promotion, even in an unconscious fashion? How can you trust that person to treat you equally when they do not consider you equal? Didn’t get that promotion I was up for, is it because I know he hates gay people even if he’s nice to me to my face? |
|
|
|
Post by whemblycthulhu on Jan 24, 2021 16:10:43 GMT -5
Just a last thought on the topic you might want to consider, gay people not being "obsessed" about what other people think of "gay issues" can be pretty tone deaf, when the 'gay issue' is literally being treated equally by law. The fact that it could be referred to as a 'gay issue' instead of a general human rights one (legal equality) is pretty weird, I have not met numerous gay people, but the few I can count as friends don't really seem comfortable in the role of the lesser citizen, even if they are not "obsessed" by it in their 'daily' lives. I was trying to be precise here, but agree with your general premise. |
|
|
|
Post by whemblycthulhu on Jan 24, 2021 16:45:29 GMT -5
So long as the CEO maintains the "utter most respect" to the employee? That's civility. Maybe it's a product of my work environment and my own bubble in life, but I know of many many gay couples. And in that scenario, most wouldn't care what their boss said on their personal time, so long as they're treated with respect and equally with their co-workers, they don't give a shit. And, I think that's mostly right, as they're trying to live their lives without obssessing of what others think about "gay issues". What happens when the work BBQ comes around and families are invited to attend? Do you honestly believe that someone who is gay would feel as comfortable bringing their husband and adopted kid to that BBQ as their straight coworker, knowing that their boss does not think they should be allowed to have the same legal rights? Sure, maybe he isn't rude to their face, but how do they know what he will be like behind their backs? How do they know whether his prejudice will affect their ability to get a promotion, even in an unconscious fashion? How can you trust that person to treat you equally when they do not consider you equal? That's a good hypothetical and I won't argue that stuff like this doesn't happen. If it looked like you were passed over based on your orientation, that's horrible and all options for recourse is on the table. Discrimination of orientation is one kind of discrimination, and we all need to be observant when any discrimination happens. |
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 25, 2021 1:12:02 GMT -5
Barring any further delays, ritides new forum should be going up soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by dabbler on Jan 25, 2021 2:11:30 GMT -5
Barring any further delays, ritides new forum should be going up soon. Please post a link when it's up, I'm interested to see how it goes |
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 25, 2021 2:14:22 GMT -5
Barring any further delays, ritides new forum should be going up soon. Please post a link when it's up, I'm interested to see how it goes My prediction is it'll be a trainwreck, considering ritides seems more interested in "disenting views" than minor things like "facts." |
|
|
|
Post by dabbler on Jan 25, 2021 2:44:06 GMT -5
Please post a link when it's up, I'm interested to see how it goes My prediction is it'll be a trainwreck, considering ritides seems more interested in "disenting views" than minor things like "facts." Oh yeah it'll be a mess. He's not gonna be able to mod that thing at all. I'm interested to see how well the people on it self moderate, because that'll be what decides if it's functional or not |
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 25, 2021 3:03:07 GMT -5
My prediction is it'll be a trainwreck, considering ritides seems more interested in "disenting views" than minor things like "facts." Oh yeah it'll be a mess. He's not gonna be able to mod that thing at all. I'm interested to see how well the people on it self moderate, because that'll be what decides if it's functional or not Probably poorly because almost anything will be allowed so long as it's "polite." Because apparently saying "punch nazis and fascists" is bad, but "those kids DESERVE to be separated from their parents and stuffed into cages" is ok because it's said politely. |
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 25, 2021 3:25:23 GMT -5
If its anything like Dakka, we can enjoy LARPing groundhog day.
|
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jan 25, 2021 7:06:13 GMT -5
Because apparently saying "punch nazis and fascists" is bad, but "those kids DESERVE to be separated from their parents and stuffed into cages" is ok because it's said politely. Yeah I'm sure I can make a very polite point about how I'm a law and order guy and I believe Nazi shit is a disturbance to the good order of things and that we should make law punishing those and that the law should therefore punish saying nazi shit with a good punch in the face. I'm quite thinking of politely expressing the most radical propositions just to see how the mods react! |
|
Great Cthulhu Himself
OT Cowboy
TEMPORARY TITLE
In the house of Ry'leh, Great Cthulu lies sleeping...
Posts: 448
|
Post by Great Cthulhu Himself on Jan 25, 2021 11:24:08 GMT -5
Because apparently saying "punch nazis and fascists" is bad, but "those kids DESERVE to be separated from their parents and stuffed into cages" is ok because it's said politely. Yeah I'm sure I can make a very polite point about how I'm a law and order guy and I believe Nazi shit is a disturbance to the good order of things and that we should make law punishing those and that the law should therefore punish saying nazi shit with a good punch in the face. I'm quite thinking of politely expressing the most radical propositions just to see how the mods react! Quote extensively from Johnathan Swift's essay "A Modest Proposal". |
|
