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Post by hatoflords on Jan 23, 2021 18:34:55 GMT -5
I don't think pre-Jan 6 Baron was necessarily wrong. There were strong merits to the proposal that we just ditch Trump and see if the Republicans turn themselves around I think. That really only changed for me in the weeks before the riot, when more and more Republicans jumped on the 'stop the steal' bandwagon, and then watching the weaseling of responsibility afterward. At that point, I think the entire notion unity could be better achieved by leaving Trump in the past became unworkable. The country cannot turn a blind eye to that event or the role Republicans played in it. Baron never actually disagreed with that, which is a big part of why I'm so angry. I don't even really understand what this argument was ultimately about other than someone acting sanctimonious. I don't give a shit about someone on Twitter saying 'White people are the real victims of society.' I disagree vehemently with that statement but not enough to give a damn someone said it. The statement "the Democrats are a satanic cabal that diddles kids and then eats them and we have to stop the steal! Heads on pikes!" on the other hand...
I don't know why incitement to violence needs to be such a controversial line.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 18:38:09 GMT -5
I'm honestly super confused. I've never seen him behave that way before. He's generally been way more personable and on point than that in the past.
That was my read on him, admittedly he did react like this on a smaller scale when discussing "UnItY" and pardoning trump awhile ago though. Who knows, there might be some ongoing personal stuff he is facing, because the broad brush strokes seemed very out of place and unfair from him. |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 23, 2021 18:48:39 GMT -5
That was my read on him, admittedly he did react like this on a smaller scale when discussing "UnItY" and pardoning trump awhile ago though. Who knows, there might be some ongoing personal stuff he is facing, because the broad brush strokes seemed very out of place and unfair from him. It's possible, he usually addresses arguments instead of ignoring them and doubling down for sure. |
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Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jan 23, 2021 18:52:22 GMT -5
Well, if he’s gone anyway, I’ll come back.
I wonder if he was upset at the Mark Mondragon thing? I could see him thinking that was cancel culture out of control.
However, to me, MM spouting stop the steal over and over and then doubling down on poor Republicans having to be accountable was equivalent to someone posting Allahu Akhbar after an Islamist terror attack killed five and wounded dozens and then doubling down on ISIS sympathizers/recruiters being unfairly silenced.
I don’t want to give money to a man who may give some of that money to guys with Camp Auschwitz shirts.
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Post by hatoflords on Jan 23, 2021 19:11:03 GMT -5
Okay, so I know no one took me up on my last meme offer, but come on; imgur.com/DMbsjTOThis is just so golden. |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 19:28:45 GMT -5
Okay, so I know no one took me up on my last meme offer, but come on; imgur.com/DMbsjTOThis is just so golden. Obamacare at the end really got me. I wonder if he was upset at the Mark Mondragon thing? I could see him thinking that was cancel culture out of control. That would have been very silly, how would that not just be buyer beware or voting with your wallet. That would fall under his own acceptable terms of a boycott versus 'cancel culture'. |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jan 23, 2021 20:11:52 GMT -5
Wait, you actually got banned? I'm really surprised, given that even now I can see users posting who have repeatedly made far far worse comments than I could ever imagine you making Hybrid. I was banned for saying that by giving each chapter a start collecting/combat patrol box, when all of them are full of chapter-agnostic models, they are effectively giving marines several starting boxes when other factions have only one or even zero in some case. I mentioned it there: otzone.proboards.com/thread/7513/spambots-dealt?page=2 |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 23, 2021 20:35:01 GMT -5
Wait, you actually got banned? I'm really surprised, given that even now I can see users posting who have repeatedly made far far worse comments than I could ever imagine you making Hybrid. I was banned for saying that by giving each chapter a start collecting/combat patrol box, when all of them are full of chapter-agnostic models, they are effectively giving marines several starting boxes when other factions have only one or even zero in some case. I mentioned it there: otzone.proboards.com/thread/7513/spambots-dealt?page=2I'm kind of surprised I haven't gotten banned or even warned for calling the mod team failures repeatedly, but you got banned for that? What a load of horseshit. |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 23, 2021 20:45:14 GMT -5
At least now we know where Dakka draws the line, it isn't misogyny, white supremacism or fascism-light, its hating Space Marines. It weirdly seems that that is exactly how it should have gone for Dakka.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 23, 2021 20:57:23 GMT -5
That's not really what happened though, you got banned for doing it repeatedly despite being told not to. It's not the one isolated incident getting you banned.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jan 23, 2021 22:58:17 GMT -5
As for the Cancel Culture discussion... I find it abhorrent to go after a target's means to make a living. Feel free to respond to what you think is bad speech with more speech, but it's beyond despicable to take away their means to making a living.
"This guy is an asshole and I'm not going to buy your stuff while he works for you!"
OK, now what?
Then the company lost a customer. |
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 23, 2021 23:15:36 GMT -5
"This guy is an asshole and I'm not going to buy your stuff while he works for you!"
OK, now what?
Then the company lost a customer. And at what point does it change into depriving people of a living? If everyone individually decide to boycott someone, where is the difference? |
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jan 24, 2021 0:07:20 GMT -5
Then the company lost a customer. And at what point does it change into depriving people of a living? If everyone individually decide to boycott someone, where is the difference? It's really about recognizing that everyone's opinion is just that... their opinion. That we all don't think alike and that it's okay to have differences of opinions. But you kinda have to take it case-by-case I would think. Want to offer some examples? Maybe we can find that "difference". I don't think anyone would have a problem with boycotting a company who refused to fire someone if that person is an outspoken Grand Wizard of the KKK. Brendan Eich, at the time CEO of Mozilla, resigned under pressure because he posted his opposition to same-sex marriage on his blog. I wholeheartedly disagreed with him, but also disagreed with folks going after his job because he was making a comment on his personal blog, that did not have any connection to his office at Mozilla. As far as I know, and I'm willing to be corrected, he didn't "push" his anti-same sex marriage views within the confines of his job. I think it's okay to boycott the NFL if you think they're politicizing BLM too much. I know most of my family ditched the NFL, not because they're racist or the like, but because they didn't want stuff like that in the sport. They used the sport as an "escape" from all that stuff. (My Uncle refused to watch football for years because of the jingostic military stuff at the games). But, the NFL is going to be fine as they're an industry that is figuratively a money-making machine. The other thing I find abhorrent, is the practice of investigating your target in search of "mistakes" made pre-adult (ie, comments on Facebook/twitter/etc...) and bringing it up while the person is an adult in attempt to shame/cancel them. We all do/say dumb shit things in our teen years. It's part of growing up. I want to make the case that while we can hold very opposing views on things, we can also put those differences aside and work on other things together in the name of civility and progress. I work in a very liberal workforce (healthcare) and everyone knows my politics. But, we are adults enough to understand that we don't need to agree politically, but we definitely agree with our mission and work together to get things done. That's part of being an adult. Civility and grace for one another is a very necessary glue in a highly functioning society. I do believe the ubiquitous of social media exacerbate a lot of the angst we're seeing these days, which is fracturing our society even more. We some how have to get back to civility for one another. Any ideas how that can be achieved? |
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 24, 2021 4:42:32 GMT -5
Some thoughts about the CEO and the NFL. Assume your employees and co-workers know you have and have found your social media. Its naive not to think colleagues look for this sort of stuff online. Even if you write that you don't believe gay people should have equality (because that's how they read that sort of sentiment) on a personal blog, you can bet that people in the office have read it. Office gossip will do the rest. If, as a gay person, you work for the man and see this post or hear of it, even if he treats you with the utmost respect, deep down you still know that he doesn't consider you 'equal' to his straight employees. Does it then matter if it was on a personal or professional blog, if all it did was create the feeling of a hostile work environment? This isn't some bottom tier employee posting personal blogs, this is the man responsible for your potential promotion, would being gay suddenly feel like a problem at the office?
As for the NFL, boycotting it because it became too 'political' on BLM sounds more enlightened, but what it boils down to for the NFL is to fire the players expressing their opinions on BLM. That's what happened to Kaepernick after all. He lost his job for expressing his opinion, one that couldn't possibly be offensive to any group of people.
Waving things away as opposing opinions is easy, but sometimes its far more than just an opinion and that's when it crosses the line into problematic in public (racism/anti-semitism/incitement/etc.). This is not about political sides/opinions, this is about behaving like a civilized human being. Given that we already went over most of this with Baron, I will leave it here.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 24, 2021 7:31:35 GMT -5
Any ideas how that can be achieved? As a start? Prosecute Trump for all the shady shit he's done. Throw the seditionists out of Congress. The wound cannot begin to heal while there are still splinters in it. Will try to give a more thorough response later; on mobile at the moment. |
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