And the Rest... The rest of World politics thread.

[easye]

www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243220157/israel-palestinian-citizens-protest-gaza-war

Israel's Palestinian citizens grow louder in protesting the Gaza war

DEIR HANNA, Israel — After the brutal Hamas attack last October, which Israel says killed 1,200 people, anti-war demonstrations in Israel were quashed. Some Palestinian citizens of Israel were even arrested on their way to small vigils, which by law do not require a police permit. Legal aid groups documented hundreds of people who were jailed, faced job loss or suspension, or disciplinary proceedings at universities, often for social media posts that appeared to question Israel's invasion of Gaza.

That's why it was such an unusual sight, one recent Saturday afternoon, when hundreds of people marched through the Arab town of Deir Hanna, in Israel's Galilee, loudly protesting the Gaza war.

Police had banned the Palestinian flag — black, white and green with a red triangle. But like many, 25-year-old Haj Amir defiantly hoisted one over his shoulder.

It is important to note that this article is about Israeli citizens of Palestinian decent. However, they are still citizens of Israel.

[dabbler]

is important to note that this article is about Israeli citizens of Palestinian decent. However, they are still citizens of Israel.

Dunno how long for if they keep this up, if any current country would yank citizenship due to descent, I could see Israel doing it

[semipotentwalrus]

Iran's launched drones against Israel. US and UK fighters are shooting down stuff over Iraq and Syria and Iron Dome's reportedly taking down targets as well. Haven't seen anything about ballistic missiles yet.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68810053

[skyth]

After what Israel did, the response isn't a surprise.

[Haighus]

It is the first such direct clash between the two enemies,

Er.. so bombing the Consulate wasn't a direct clash?

The reporting on this is so out of whack.

[Haighus]

Apr 13, 2024 18:40:34 GMT -5 semipotentwalrus said:

Iran's launched drones against Israel. US and UK fighters are shooting down stuff over Iraq and Syria and Iron Dome's reportedly taking down targets as well. Haven't seen anything about ballistic missiles yet.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68810053

More formed take:

A bad but predictable development.

I think the Israeli government will be happy with this outcome. Not only have they forced a major military response from Iran, the UK and US have already intervened. Looks extremely close to the US being pulled into a regional war against Iran, which looks to be the Israeli goal.

Iran has really had their hand twisted. Such a blatant attack by Israel on their consulate has left them with no real option except a military response. But they clearly don't want to be dragged into a major war (like most sensible countries) and that is clear in how long they have taken to decide on a response.

I am disappointed but not surprised that the UK and US are fully backing the aggressor in this escalating conflict.

[Haighus]

Oh, something else that occurs to me- about a quarter of global oil passes through the Straits of Hormuz. If this escalates and open war breaks out between Israel and Iran, then the straits will probably be closed.

That likely somewhat benefits the US as a net exporter of oil- at the least, they are insulated from the effects.

Europe will get fucked by it though. Energy prices are already very high, enough that they are forcing deindustrialisation in Germany.

I'm sure many European governments will continue to back Israel to the hilt against their own interests though.

[bobtheinquisitor]

It makes me furious to see Netanyahu fucking around and poking another bear and for the US to fall for it again. While I hate the idea of more dead civilians, I hate shielding Netanyahu from consequences and getting dragged into another conflict that might shift the US election toward Trump even more.

[Least censored on the planet!]

Apr 14, 2024 1:58:25 GMT -5 Haighus said:

I am disappointed but not surprised that the UK and US are fully backing the aggressor in this escalating conflict.

lol

[skyth]

From what I understand the US is only acting defensively. We won't participate in offensive operations.

[Haighus]

Apr 14, 2024 17:50:38 GMT -5 Least censored on the planet! said:

Apr 14, 2024 1:58:25 GMT -5 Haighus said:

I am disappointed but not surprised that the UK and US are fully backing the aggressor in this escalating conflict.

lol

I don't find it particularly amusing that my nation is unconditionally supporting an increasingly-rogue state.

[Haighus]

Apr 14, 2024 18:14:08 GMT -5 skyth said:

From what I understand the US is only acting defensively. We won't participate in offensive operations.

Not directly perhaps (remains to be seen what will happen if/when Israel retaliates) but the US is the biggest supplier of armaments to the IDF (including strike assets like the F35) and is providing their main diplomatic cover at the UN. That is a fair amount of participation. They are shielding Israel from having consequences for its bad actions, as Bob points out.

[easye]

Jews that are Pro-Israel are a big block of political donors/voters in the US who manage to swing a lot of weight on the Hill and White House. It has been this way since the end of WWII.

[Least censored on the planet!]

Apr 15, 2024 3:54:12 GMT -5 Haighus said:

Apr 14, 2024 17:50:38 GMT -5 Least censored on the planet! said:

lol

I don't find it particularly amusing that my nation is unconditionally supporting an increasingly-rogue state.

I find it funny that you consider Israel the aggressor in the Israeli-Iranian conflict.

[Haighus]

Apr 18, 2024 19:39:57 GMT -5 Least censored on the planet! said:

Apr 15, 2024 3:54:12 GMT -5 Haighus said:

I don't find it particularly amusing that my nation is unconditionally supporting an increasingly-rogue state.

I find it funny that you consider Israel the aggressor in the Israeli-Iranian conflict.

I don't think it is a controversial position to recognise a difference between proxy wars and direct conflict. The USA and USSR understood this very well during the Cold War when nuclear war was on the table. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc. were clearly geopolitical struggles between the two nations but were not considered direct conflict. A similar situation has been present in West Asia with a cold war fought through proxies.

Israel is clearly the aggressor in an escalation to direct warfare between the two states. Since 1945, this is the first time a nation state has directly attacked the diplomatic mission of another nation state (and has already sparked a precedent that was followed by Ecuador shortly afterwards). Previously, diplomatic missions were accepted as off-limits for military intervention unless expressly allowed by the nation in question (such as in the Iranian embasy siege in London). It is hard to stress enough that no nation has done this before, it is straight up rogue state behaviour.

Lets flip the situation. If Iran bombed the US consulate in Jordan and killed a top US general who was visiting, how do you think the US would respond? They would legitimately see this as an act of war and aggression and the Persian Gulf would be swarming with carrier battlegroups launching strikes by now.

I do not support Iran, I think their government is vile. But I am not looking at this through the lense of "teams" and it is quite clear they are not the aggressors in this escalation. In addition, failing to condemn Israeli aggression here makes the whole world less safe and heavily threatens what shaky concept of a rules-based international order still remains.