CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on Apr 30, 2019 17:39:26 GMT -5
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Apr 30, 2019 20:28:03 GMT -5
Which is weird since... Maduro's the one orchastrating the coup.
Guiado is the legit leader.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 20:52:05 GMT -5
Really? I thought that was the kind of thing you didn't just cop to. Where did he say that? On the Truman today.
Also it's glaringly obvious. We're at step three of the Standard CIA South American Overthrow plan. Next is we send 'advisors'.
Edit: which Russia has beat us to, so now we're threatening to go directly to step Five, US Invasion
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 20:55:14 GMT -5
Which is weird since... Maduro's the one orchastrating the coup. Guiado is the legit leader. Other way around. Maduro was the elected President. Guiado is not. Guiado has been trying to ge the Venezualan Military to go over to his side, but in fact has only managed a small number of the National Guard. The rest were apparently turned off of the idea by today's execution of a Colonel by protestors. Which lead to the now famous armored car running over protestors.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Apr 30, 2019 21:29:44 GMT -5
Which is weird since... Maduro's the one orchastrating the coup. Guiado is the legit leader. Other way around. Maduro was the elected President. Guiado is not. Guiado has been trying to ge the Venezualan Military to go over to his side, but in fact has only managed a small number of the National Guard. The rest were apparently turned off of the idea by today's execution of a Colonel by protestors. Which lead to the now famous armored car running over protestors. I thought the National Assembly declared Maduro invalid via Venezualan Constitution. O.o All I know, is that just about everyone agrees (sans Cuba/Russia).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 4:09:01 GMT -5
I thought the National Assembly declared Maduro invalid via Venezualan Constitution. O.o All I know, is that just about everyone agrees (sans Cuba/Russia). Of course thy agree. We've made it clear that our sanctions on Venezuelan oil will continue until anyone who was ever part of the Chavez Government is gone.
As far as declaring him invalid, this is a little murkier. There's no second step, so no replacement. The Constitutions there allows for it, but... Considering they did it the day after he was reelected, how much value it has is questionable at best.
No denying he's a tyrant, but how much actual support the opposition HAS is a good question, and if his ouster is legitimate is also on someone what murkier ground.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on May 1, 2019 8:44:40 GMT -5
I thought the National Assembly declared Maduro invalid via Venezualan Constitution. O.o All I know, is that just about everyone agrees (sans Cuba/Russia). Of course thy agree. We've made it clear that our sanctions on Venezuelan oil will continue until anyone who was ever part of the Chavez Government is gone.
As far as declaring him invalid, this is a little murkier. There's no second step, so no replacement. The Constitutions there allows for it, but... Considering they did it the day after he was reelected, how much value it has is questionable at best.
No denying he's a tyrant, but how much actual support the opposition HAS is a good question, and if his ouster is legitimate is also on someone what murkier ground.
Yeah... this is a mess. Again, I mentioned this in other thread... NO VUCKING WAG THE DAWG scenario. The Venezualan people got themselves into this... they can get themselves out.
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CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on May 1, 2019 10:58:59 GMT -5
Pretending the entirety of the shitshow that is South American politics isn't at least 50% the fault of 100+ years of American Imperialism is myopic at best, my itchy dude
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Post by whemblycthulhu on May 1, 2019 17:19:29 GMT -5
Pretending the entirety of the shitshow that is South American politics isn't at least 50% the fault of 100+ years of American Imperialism is myopic at best, my itchy dude O.o Huh? Are you advocating that we'd invade? Dude...no... just no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 19:15:52 GMT -5
Yeah... this is a mess. Again, I mentioned this in other thread... NO VUCKING WAG THE DAWG scenario. The Venezualan people got themselves into this... they can get themselves out. trump has long since wagged the dog.
Anyway, with not fewer than two constitutions atm, there's a lot of murkiyness about who's legitimate. Maduro is the last elected President, and the 'other' Venezuelan Congress approved him, but the 'Original' Congress opposes him. However, they drafted a new Constitution between points A and B. Under NEITHER of them is Guiado legitimate, as while he does have support among the former Congress, the current one has approved nothing from him, and, in fact, he's trying to exploit a loophole that kicks in when the office of President is 'empty'. Which, even if Maduro were to step down, Guiado is not in the line of succession in either case.
throw in that the Cartels, former FARC cells, and Colombians are supporting Guiado, who all are either currently AT WAR with Venezuela, or were VERY recently AT WAR with Venezuela, and you can see just what a shit dhow this is.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on May 2, 2019 10:39:44 GMT -5
Yeah... this is a mess. Again, I mentioned this in other thread... NO VUCKING WAG THE DAWG scenario. The Venezualan people got themselves into this... they can get themselves out. trump has long since wagged the dog.
Anyway, with not fewer than two constitutions atm, there's a lot of murkiyness about who's legitimate. Maduro is the last elected President, and the 'other' Venezuelan Congress approved him, but the 'Original' Congress opposes him. However, they drafted a new Constitution between points A and B. Under NEITHER of them is Guiado legitimate, as while he does have support among the former Congress, the current one has approved nothing from him, and, in fact, he's trying to exploit a loophole that kicks in when the office of President is 'empty'. Which, even if Maduro were to step down, Guiado is not in the line of succession in either case.
throw in that the Cartels, former FARC cells, and Colombians are supporting Guiado, who all are either currently AT WAR with Venezuela, or were VERY recently AT WAR with Venezuela, and you can see just what a shit dhow this is.
Yeah, I've done some more readings on this and... it's a farking mess as it's not black and white. Both sides claim legitimacy... We're watching society breakdown in Venezuala in real-time. That's why I'm vehemently opposed to any sort of intervention, as it'll be a repeat of Syria (or Libya).
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on May 2, 2019 14:46:28 GMT -5
Are you advocating that we'd invade? That's absolutely not something he was advocating for. He was just answering your “It's all on the Venezuelans, the US had no part in this” claim, without advocating any specific solution.
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Post by laughingman on May 2, 2019 15:12:14 GMT -5
To be fair, the Trump administration has publicly said we should invade them.
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CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on May 2, 2019 15:31:15 GMT -5
Are you advocating that we'd invade? That's absolutely not something he was advocating for. He was just answering your “It's all on the Venezuelans, the US had no part in this” claim, without advocating any specific solution. <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 5.159999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_50322948" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_8418190" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 196px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_37388024" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 196px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_82151205" scrolling="no"></iframe> Yes, thanks. Solution? I have no idea. At this point, either short civil war with the US directly supporting the victors, or a protracted civil war with the US indirectly supporting the eventual victors. Might be easier to just invent a time machine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 17:57:07 GMT -5
<iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 5.159999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_50322948" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_8418190" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 196px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_37388024" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="5.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 5.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 196px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_82151205" scrolling="no"></iframe> Yes, thanks. Solution? I have no idea. At this point, either short civil war with the US directly supporting the victors, or a protracted civil war with the US indirectly supporting the eventual victors. Might be easier to just invent a time machine. Easy soluton: end us sanctions
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