herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Mar 13, 2023 3:24:52 GMT -5
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Mar 13, 2023 3:27:50 GMT -5
However, the establishment has been firmly in the grip of the Tories for over a decade and is actively shifting further right as the Tories do. As such, the BBC is also doing so, very openly in some areas like transphobia. It definitely accelerating pretty publicly, such as the axing of left leaning shows like Mock The Week and The Mash Report, and the subsequent drama about not being able to find any right wing politicians. Ditto the issues with audience selection for stuff like Question time. I can see there's some attempt at balance but it definitely feels skewed.
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Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 13, 2023 5:15:33 GMT -5
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Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
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Post by Haighus on Mar 13, 2023 5:31:24 GMT -5
Were MOTD viewing figures that bad last weekend?
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Mar 13, 2023 5:37:13 GMT -5
Were MOTD viewing figures that bad last weekend? They were UP by 25% - 2m to 2.5m. Though I suspect most of that was curiosity/publicity.
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Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 13, 2023 5:45:00 GMT -5
I suspect it’s more “what the fuck is impartial about sucking Tory cock because someone you happen to pay criticised them”
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Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
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Post by Haighus on Mar 13, 2023 5:53:47 GMT -5
Were MOTD viewing figures that bad last weekend? They were UP by 25% - 2m to 2.5m. Though I suspect most of that was curiosity/publicity. Oh, fair enough
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Post by mrmystic on Mar 13, 2023 6:59:46 GMT -5
However, the establishment has been firmly in the grip of the Tories for over a decade and is actively shifting further right as the Tories do. As such, the BBC is also doing so, very openly in some areas like transphobia. It definitely accelerating pretty publicly, such as the axing of left leaning shows like Mock The Week and The Mash Report, and the subsequent drama about not being able to find any right wing politicians. Ditto the issues with audience selection for stuff like Question time. I can see there's some attempt at balance but it definitely feels skewed. Ironically, the argument has been being made for some time that Mock the Week got cancelled for quite the opposite reason - it was too combative and sexist at first, and now after being watered down and made formulaic, the viewing figures have dipped and it's still too damn white/male (very much not a Tory argument there). Here's a Guardian article from 2016 for an example:- link
Here's a more recent one from the Spectator last year striking the same beats:- link
Because the BBC is intrinsically tied up in that establishment feedback loop, people's perceptions of it really do change along with their perceptions of how it interacts with the government, it's quite fascinating.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Mar 13, 2023 7:17:42 GMT -5
Mock The Week isn't unique in that regards from a panel show - I can't think of any UK panel show that isn't mostly white men.
I don't know why though; the women always seemed to get on pretty well on the show and everyone seemed pretty liberal.
Of course, that doesn't explain The Mash Report, which was a white woman and and Indian man, but very critical of the Tory Government.
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Post by A Town Called Malus on Mar 13, 2023 7:20:50 GMT -5
The Tories have been in government for well over a decade and are still apparently confused that the actual people in power get more scrutiny and ridicule by satirists and comedians than those who are not.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
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Post by herzlos on Mar 13, 2023 7:23:30 GMT -5
The Tories have been in government for well over a decade and are still apparently confused that the actual people in power get more scrutiny and ridicule by satirists and comedians than those who are not. I think they know that, but think it's easier to suppress the scrutiny than pretend to be decent human beings.
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Post by mrmystic on Mar 13, 2023 7:48:27 GMT -5
Mock The Week isn't unique in that regards from a panel show - I can't think of any UK panel show that isn't mostly white men.
I don't know why though; the women always seemed to get on pretty well on the show and everyone seemed pretty liberal.
Of course, that doesn't explain The Mash Report, which was a white woman and and Indian man, but very critical of the Tory Government. Funnily enough, the Mash Report themselves say they bear the government no malice and are strictly apolitical. The viewing figures had become extremely poor by the most recent season, and whilst a few specific clips of the show have gone viral, it was one of the least watched comedies actually aired by the BBC. Watchers decreased each and every episode. Again, this is nothing new, it's been shedding viewers each season. Here's an article noting the poor engagement as far back as 2017:- linkThe idea that it was axed for being too left wing was spread primarily by the Sun newspaper - hardly a bastion of good quality journalism. Kumar himself said he thought it was something to do with the Tories out to get him as well - but then again, he wouldn't be the first chap to be annoyed his comedy baby got sent to the metaphorical chop.
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Post by mrmystic on Mar 13, 2023 7:58:20 GMT -5
The Tories have been in government for well over a decade and are still apparently confused that the actual people in power get more scrutiny and ridicule by satirists and comedians than those who are not. I honestly think the majority of Tories don't give a damn what the average comedian on the BBC says. Unlike the States, the rich and powerful right wingers here learnt long ago that if you let people blow off steam in other ways, they're less likely to show up with an axe asking for stuff. They're not so precious as a rule of thumb. The Labour Party was just as mardy as the Tories are about the BBC when the shoe was on the other foot, and I fully expect them to be again once they're back in power. Ragging on the party in power is just what comedians do, and any sensible politician knows that. Lest we forget, Boris Johnson fronted up Have I Got News for You multiple times and took a goodnatured ribbing off them. And he's the darling of the right wing press. No, the ones the politicians really hate are the Andrew Neill's of the world (and even he's gone soft these days). People who actually challenge them on serious policy discussion. There's a reason most of those shows are gone, and it's because no politician actually wants to be grilled by someone who knows something about economics, or the military, or energy policy.
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nfe
OT Initiate
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Post by nfe on Mar 13, 2023 9:17:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure how we define 'average Tory' but there are plenty Tory MPs and innumerable Tory members who are extremely animated about what is said on BBC comedy shows and, as we've seen with open letters and endless tv and radio spots in the last few days, what any leftist (or centrist) voice associated with the BBC says from any platform. Lest we forget, Boris Johnson fronted up Have I Got News for You multiple times and took a goodnatured ribbing off them. I'm not sure 'good natured' is appropriate, here. Hyslop went for him over Stuart Collier and Johnson was livid about it. He's an ardent Brexiteer Tory that chaired (and continues to chair) a hard right, and frequently far right, political magazine who let that spill over into interviews on a regular basis. I don't think he's a good example. He's not a Paxman (also a Tory, but always very balanced).
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Post by mrmystic on Mar 13, 2023 9:30:46 GMT -5
I voted for Brexit and I'm not a Tory. Had my reasons, still do. Dismissing him as an 'ardent Brexiteer' this many years on really says more about yourself than it does McNeill. But yes, Paxman is another example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. Chat shows which actually challenge the politicians and rile them up a bit, ask them awkward questions. Whether you like him or not, McNeill gave all the major candidates a grilling before the last two elections; and he certainly got under Corbyn's skin. Gave Sturgeon a bit of trouble too. Boris opted to dodge him altogether rather than sit in the ring. Said a lot about Boris that he'd go on the shows with all the yuks and jokes, but won't sit down to a serious interrogation. And that, I suppose, is my point. All you ever lose against a panel of comedians is a bit of dignity, something not many real politicians care about. We're not some third world autocracy, where being laughed at means the proles have lost fear and will be coming for you in your palace next week. It doesn't matter. Not really. They don't give a damn about stopping Nish Kumar saying some off-colour things on his 10PM slot. Getting made to look incompetent in your portfolio is another and far more serious matter altogether to politicians. And given how skin-deep most politicians knowledge of their briefs is, it's not hard for a specialist to do. Right now, Gove and Wallace are probably the only half-decent ministers the entire sodding government has. And if that's all you've got, it's time to retire to the opposition benches for a decade or so till fresh talent appears.
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