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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 22, 2019 16:21:25 GMT -5
I'm asking *you* if you think where you live is "awesome" to the same gumption that I place where I live? No, I definitely don't, because I think where I live in rather good, with some strong points, but also some weak points, that there are better places, and that we could sometime learn from places that are overall worse how to become better on certain aspect. You believe that the US is UNIQUELY awesome. Pretty different. And yet, people move all the time. Yes, so what? Does that happen in switzerland? Basically how my grandmother survived WW2. I'm really confused at your question. Are you really asking if people ask for asylum in Switzerland? Yes! Of course they do! What kind of question is that? How do you imagine Switzerland in you head? Like, really? How do you imagine Switzerland to be? Gerrymandering works at a district level within each state and designed to favor certain voting groups. Gerrymandering is about dividing the voters so as to get more representatives for your party than the rate of people who voted for you overall. If the divide is already there, it's still the same mechanism: artificial division in separate group and counting those groups separately, instead of counting everyone the same and then using the rates to determine the number of representatives for each side. But, hey, journalist couldn't find ANYONE to confirm Christine Blasey Ford's claim against Kavanaugh either! They couldn't find anything to disprove it, and she spoke quite a big deal about it. If you try this on me, they'll ask you how you know. If you say you have first-hand knowledge because you were a direct witness, they can easily check we never were in the same place, ever. If you say you know it second-hand, you'll have a lot of explaining to do about who told you that. You just won't be able to make a credible case. The operative word here is credible. Here, I'll put some extra emphasis. You wouldn't be able to pull a CREDIBLE case. Christine Blasey Ford did. But, he's a public figure so the bar is extremely high (as opposed to you taking me to court). Even if he doesn't win the trial, further investigation would certainly help him if he was innocent, no? No? But, again, there's zero evidence except for a "He said, she said". In case of “He said she said” I tend to believe the victim. Because it's much easier and more common to rape and deny than to mount a credible accusation, and suffer the consequences of a trial. Maybe you should understand that this was probably made up, with the idea that it'd be difficult to disprove with the hopes that Trump would rescind the nomination. Yeah of course, because then Trump would just nominate some other conservative judge and it would have been for naught. I'm sure democrats decided to do all of this for naught. The big bogeyman democrats. That's what I say and that's what you think. A video saying “The current system would cost us that much, but if we change it it will cost us less”? That's your source? Really? Really really? Really really really? I'm supposed to be convinced here? No. I'm responding to your hyperbole with sarcasm. No, you were saying that the electoral college was democratic and that why we should avoid it. Where is the sarcasm? And facts over feelings bro, or something? Like, actual knowledge is good? Rather than guesswork and ignorance? Or we should meet up and discuss over a pint or three. I don't bite... that hard. Cool, do you have a visa? Plane ticket? When are you coming? Because I ain't spending that much time and money for the meetup, sorry. I'll show you Le dernier bar avant la fin du monde, ain't no 40k reference that I know of there but plenty of other cool geek stuff. |
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 22, 2019 16:29:40 GMT -5
Uh... hi, I think.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 22, 2019 16:54:25 GMT -5
I'm asking *you* if you think where you live is "awesome" to the same gumption that I place where I live? No, I definitely don't, because I think where I live in rather good, with some strong points, but also some weak points, that there are better places, and that we could sometime learn from places that are overall worse how to become better on certain aspect. You believe that the US is UNIQUELY awesome. Pretty different. Okay. Fair enough. Yes, I think 'murrica is uniquely awesome. (note, I didn't say perfect). Just saying. It is not uncommon. Cool. I literally don't have any idea how's switzerland is like. All I know is mountains, the pope hires your army/mercenary for vatican defense, swiss army knives and a history of geo-political neutrality. (hence the term of art, "I'll be like Switzerland" to convey that you're not taking sides). Outside that... my knowledge of the swiss is limited. Yes. Correct. Which as no impact to Presidential elections. Correct. No. She did not. She couldn't be sure of the year when it happened. She doesn't have ONE other witness to back up her claims. Her BEST FRIEND refused to substantiate the event that she described. What she did, was no different than me falsely accusing you of pederasty. She was far from credible. How do you prove a negative? That's you. There's also a concept of "lawfare" where the punishment *is* the process/consequences of a trial. All you have to do is look at the objective here: Make Kavanuagh politcally toxic to force Trump to rescind the nomination. It was blatantly obvious....especially based on an incredibly weak evidence. Yes. Democrats was trying to stop the nomination. Had they stopped him. They'll do the same thing to the next nominee and perpetually bog down the process to try running out the clock. Plus, the democrat base was demanding "resistance" in all things. Ok. Sounds like you don't want to be convinced. Okay. Tell me I'm wasting my time and I'll stop. Huh? No, I was saying that the EC was purposely anti-democratic (meaning, it's not supposed to be 1person=1vote). I don't know what you were saying. You keep asking if we should avoid democracy, but I'm not even sure what you meant by that. You need to be more specific. I'm aware of studies done between countries that measures these things. So...again... and?Visa, yes. Plane ticket? In the works... most likely not until after my youngest graduate in two years. Unless things work out better. My bucket list is to visit Europe again and spend time in each locale (like a week per). Switzerland is on that list.  |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 22, 2019 20:52:30 GMT -5
Yes, I think 'murrica is uniquely awesome. (note, I didn't say perfect). Funniest part is you seem to believe that Americans themselves are also “uniquely awesome” and that they deserve more than others. Did I say funny? Meant scary. I literally don't have any idea how's switzerland is like. All I know is mountains, the pope hires your army/mercenary for vatican defense, swiss army knives and a history of geo-political neutrality. (hence the term of art, "I'll be like Switzerland" to convey that you're not taking sides). Yeah, not knowing about other country is a sure help to believe that yours is uniquely awesome. Yes. Correct. Which as no impact to Presidential elections. Yes it does: it changes who get elected. Change the borders of the states and suddenly Trump isn't elected. She did. Elon Musk didn't. You didn't even try. Let's review the two cases together, shall we? Dr Ford did provide an explanation for how she knew (she knew because she was the victim). Elon Musk provided no explanation on how he knew. Dr Ford was indeed in the same college as Dr Ford. Elon Musk barely even knew the rescuer's name. She couldn't be sure of the year when it happened. I can't tell you the year I started playing Warhammer. But I sure did start to play Warhammer. And I'm quite younger than Dr Ford, no offense intended. She doesn't have ONE other witness to back up her claims. Woah, rape happened when there was no witness around, incredible!!! What she did, was no different than me falsely accusing you of pederasty. See above. How do you know that I am allegedly am a pederast? Are you going to say I touched you when you were a child, and I wasn't even born? Time traveler pederast? My neighbor told you, what's his name, how did you met him? Do you realize how many similar question Dr Ford had to answer? You couldn't keep your story going for a fraction of this. How do you prove a negative? Well, depend on what negative ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Yeah, it's a me! Not HBMC! Had they stopped him. They'll do the same thing to the next nominee and perpetually bog down the process to try running out the clock. You know, if that was true, I think after 3 different nominees had been attacked in similar way, the conservatives would have a much, much stronger case that this was political manipulation, which would have harmed the democrats infinitely more. So… that's a pretty stupid plan you are describing there. Sounds like you don't want to be convinced. Sounds like your argument is weak-sauce, as it's literally about taking what someone said and pretending he said the opposite. Huh? No, I was saying that the EC was purposely anti-democratic (meaning, it's not supposed to be 1person=1vote). And you said it was good that it was anti-democratic. So… I'm aware of studies done between countries that measures these things. So...again... and?And other countries come up on top of the US, despite smaller GDP per capita. So, time to ask yourself about where that GDP is going, and who has the best system for people who aren't rich or banks. My bucket list is to visit Europe again and spend time in each locale (like a week per). Switzerland is on that list. Yeah but I don't live in Switzerland! I live in the city where church burn and people riot!!! Yup. It's designed to give all voters in every state some "say". It's identity politics. It's “That person is a Texan before he is an American”. Progressive need to advocate to lower the cost of education. It's too fucking expensive. […] I guaran.FUCKING.tee you that colleges will NOT lower the costs out of altruistic reasons. You know how what would make this way easier? Hear this is out: quality, prestigious private schools. That's what we got around here. Some of the private schools are still expensive, but none are “Indebted for half your life” expensive. |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 22, 2019 21:01:32 GMT -5
For the record, I follow some feminists that are working against rape, I bought their books on the subject. They don't give anyone a pass, not to right-wing politicians, not to left-wing politicians, not to Muslim influential people. Things like “Not coming forward immediately after the fact” is really common, and in no way a sign that the accusation is fabricated. Pretending it's just a political attack is common no matter if it's George Tron, Denis Baupin or Tarik Ramadan who is accused.
There are rapists and abusers in all party, in all ideologies. Where we can be different though is how we deal with them.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 22, 2019 22:21:08 GMT -5
Yes, I think 'murrica is uniquely awesome. (note, I didn't say perfect). Funniest part is you seem to believe that Americans themselves are also “uniquely awesome” and that they deserve more than others. Did I say funny? Meant scary. We "deserve more than others"? What do you mean by this? I believe every country is unique. Why are you so hung up about this word? Is there something that I'm missing? Why are you questioning my belief that US is an awesome place? What are you implying? Spit it out man! That's NOT GERRYMANDERING! That's the Electoral College! Furthermore, we don't know for sure that Hillary would win if the rules will a popular vote as opposed to the EC. Seriously, are things getting lost in translation here? Drop the Elon Musk thing... I didn't bring him up. Dr. Ford has had zero substantiation. ZERO. She's just as credible as when I accused you of being a pederast. Which is nil. About 2 years ago, I heard your neighbor commenting how he caught you in pederasty. Or, it might've been 4 years ago. No, wait... 3-ish years ago. Who doesn't tell her best friend when it happened. Dude. Don't you see the politics of this? At. All? She couldn't keep her story straight either. At nearly every turn of questioning, Ford was unsure about key facts regarding events that occurred as recently as a few weeks before the hearing. When asked about whether she gave the only piece of evidence, that is the notes from a couple’s therapy session in 2012 in which she described the incident she says involved Kavanaugh, to a reporter for the WP as recently as September 16, she could not recall. When asked about the polygraph test she took, less than two months prior to the hearing, Ford said she could not recall important facts, like who paid for the test and what day it was administered. She has yet to definitively say what calendar year the alleged assault took place, although she has narrowed it to sometime in the summer of 1982.. or, she thinks, anyway. Read a career sexual assault prosecutor on words here: www.scribd.com/embeds/389884130/content#from_embedTL;DR: A “he said, she said” case is incredibly difficult to prove. But this case is even weaker than that. Dr. Ford identified other witnesses to the event, and those witnesses either refuted her allegations or failed to corroborate them. For the reasons discussed below, I do not think that a reasonable prosecutor would bring this case based on the evidence before the Committee. Nor do I believe that this evidence is sufficient to satisfy the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard.:facepalm: Let's trying this again. How do you prove something that didn't happen? :waves: Why do you need "3 different nominees"? This was a political character assassination. An obvious one at that. 30 to 40 trillion dollars over 10 years. We don't even spend that much nowadays. It's insane. Righto. That was the general intent behind the formation of the nation with the Electoral College. Each State was an equal entity, no one state was supposed to be valued more then another. If it came down to just the people, then there would have been no need for the states....whereby a popular vote would be fine. Okay... I'll ask. Thanks for the suggestion. Paris? I'd love to go back and spend more time in the countryside. Or American who is also a Texan. What have that too...and they're usually the worst offenders in the cost department. It's the state schools that are generally more affordable. |
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 22, 2019 22:36:28 GMT -5
For the record, I follow some feminists that are working against rape, I bought their books on the subject. They don't give anyone a pass, not to right-wing politicians, not to left-wing politicians, not to Muslim influential people. Things like “Not coming forward immediately after the fact” is really common, and in no way a sign that the accusation is fabricated. Pretending it's just a political attack is common no matter if it's George Tron, Denis Baupin or Tarik Ramadan who is accused. There are rapists and abusers in all party, in all ideologies. Where we can be different though is how we deal with them. I don't disagree that rape victims are in a tough situation. My first wife was raped when she was a teenage and she's suffered emotionally to this day. So, I understand why rape victims have a hard time going public. But, keep in mind Kavanaugh wasn't a "nobody judge" in DC. He was known for his jurisprudence for years, and was ALWAYS a name that came up politically for future posts. He was in the DC "it" crowd. He worked for GWB's first term as White House council. He did work for the Independent Counsel that investigated Bill Fucking Clinton. He was a DC Appellet Judge for something like 15 years before he was nominated for the Supreme Court. She had every opportunity to bring this up. But it's literally her word against Kavanaugh. She couldn't even get her friends to substantiate the details of the alleged assault. Maybe you don't see the political intensity here in the states. Democrats were pissed that the ideological balance of the court is shifting. piiiisssed. The likes I've never seen before. And I've seen quite a bit. So, outside of a scintilla of additional corroborating evidence... I don't believe Ford. FWIW my ex-wife literally called BS on this, and she's politically agnostic. But, she saw this whole ordeal a step back for the real victims, which pissed her off to no end as she still volunteers to counsel assault victims. |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 23, 2019 6:20:12 GMT -5
It's the same naivete that got us in that mess of the post-Iraq War, where the neo-con thought by "giving Democracy" to the Iraqi, the situation would take care of itself. (you can't "give" Democracy to anyone... they have to earn/fight for it). Except Japan. You can give (force upon) democracy to Japan just fine, without them ever earning or fighting for it. |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 23, 2019 6:45:20 GMT -5
Why are you questioning my belief that US is an awesome place? What are you implying? Spit it out man! I think I've been pretty clear. You believe that the interest of US people trumps the interests of everyone else, and that this is the moral way to go. Is that not explicit enough? How can I make this clearer than this? Do you want practical example? Are we going to talk about Iran again? That's NOT GERRYMANDERING! That's the Electoral College! That's the same principle at work, and it's bad for the same reason. Unless you are telling me that there are very real difference between the citizens of each state, but given how integrated together they are... that's quite dubious. There isn't any kind of state nationality, afaik, just place of residence. It's like the French regions. Furthermore, we don't know for sure that Hillary would win if the rules will a popular vote as opposed to the EC. We know she got more votes though. Drop the Elon Musk thing... I didn't bring him up. I brought him up, and I don't intended to drop it, because the Elon Musk thing is the direct real-life equivalent of your favorite argument, i.e. "What if I called you a pedophile out of nowhere? How would you defend yourself?" If you drop that argument I'll drop the Elon Musk thing. Until then I'm going to keep repeating that if you actually accused me of being a pedophile out of the blues, that is how it would play out, which is VERY different than how Kavanaugh played out. Who doesn't tell her best friend when it happened. Plenty of people. That question is pretty indecent to be honest. Do you want names of people who were raped and kept silent about it, including to their best friends, for a very long time? Don't you see the politics of this? At. All? Don't you see the politics in the case of Tarik Ramadan? Don't you see the politics in the case of George Tron? Don't you see the politics in the case of Denis Baupin? Don't you see the politics about Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Don't you see the politics about Julian Assange? Don't you see the politics about... It's always about the politics. Or money. Or envy. Or whatever. It's always about protecting the rapist when he doesn't fit the stereotype of who you think rape, general you which includes all political sides. Why do you need "3 different nominees"? Once is happenstance, two is coincidence, three is enemy action. 30 to 40 trillion dollars over 10 years. We don't even spend that much nowadays. It's insane. Bernie Sanders: "With the current system we will pay 30 to 40 trillion dollars over 10 years. With my plan we would pay less" You: "He said with his plan we would pay 30 to 40 trillion dollars over 10 years, which is more than what we pay currently" Dude. Stop. Don't give a source and then pretend it says the opposite of what I checked and saw it said. At least pretend you can't give a link to the video or something. Paris? I'd love to go back and spend more time in the countryside. Yes Paris. What have that too...and they're usually the worst offenders in the cost department. Sorry obviously meant prestigious public schools. Brain fart on my part. Most prestigious schools (by far) are public schools where students are paid a living wage to study (which would be 100% impossible in a private school). Public university is cheap and not too bad. Hence the price on private school is kept reasonable, because private schools couldn't find clients elsewise. |
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 23, 2019 16:48:02 GMT -5
Why are you questioning my belief that US is an awesome place? What are you implying? Spit it out man! I think I've been pretty clear. You believe that the interest of US people trumps the interests of everyone else, and that this is the moral way to go. Is that not explicit enough? How can I make this clearer than this? Do you want practical example? Are we going to talk about Iran again? Well... yeah, if we have interests in certain things by definition it has to trump other folks. Is it moral? Sure, if you believe your adversary is intent to destroying you. Folks are really different in the various states, such that it's more than a "place of residence". In any event, you're being too cavalier in equating Gerrymandering to EC. Gerrymandering is a purposeful exercise to favor a particular party. EC was not about favoring a particular party. Please read this: www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/in-defense-of-the-electoral-collegeUnder a different set of rules whereby the popular vote is meaningless. As such, under the current rules, voters in some states may not vote at all thinking they believe the state would only go one direction. No it's not. Blasey Ford was accusing Kavanaugh out of the blue as well. And that's the most charitable description. I'm not in the "believe all women" camp.f[/quote] Still an odd thing. There's usually three reason sexual assault victims keeps quiet: 1) She knows the assaulter (family member or close friend) 2) Power dynamics (ie, a boss or weather individual 3) low self confidence due to shame The first 2 doesn't really fit Ford's situation...the last may have more credibility if she wasn't so unreliable about other things. Every one of those has more substantiation than Blasey Ford. The most damning to her, was that her best friend wouldn't substantiate Ford's accusation. Okay. You asked for a link for what it would fucking cost. I posted a video straight from the mutherfucker's mouth. You believing when he said "we would pay less" tells me a lot. When the government is saying "you will pay less under my plan". Forgive me for not believing him. I'm still waiting for any savings, not just the $2500 per year, that Obama promised under Obamacare. My monthly premiums went UP and my deductibles when UP. Cool. I need to spend a few days at the Louve and then explore the countryside. What you understand how that works in France... I don't think that is what our elected officials are advocating for.. They're literally advocating to wipe out current student debt. AND THEN, for future students, give them enough money to afford both states and private schools. There is literally zero plans to apply any sort of downward pressure to reduce cost. |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 24, 2019 16:52:03 GMT -5
Well... yeah, if we have interests in certain things by definition it has to trump other folks. Is it moral? Sure, if you believe your adversary is intent to destroying you. I'd refer you to my quote about stealing from an abusive father but I'm not even sure if “Your adversary” here is supposed to be just the Iranian government or the whole population, and if it's the second case, if you are arguing that because of ignorance or disingenuity. So I'm going to ask you to expand a bit on that. Folks are really different in the various states, such that it's more than a "place of residence". How hard is it administratively to change from voting in one country to voting in another? “What if, instead of breaking up the electoral college so that each person voting had the same weight, we gerrymandered the system to favor republicans.”  If the author took the issues of wasted votes even remotely seriously, he wouldn't argue for just different state separation, this just change whose vote is wasted (in favor of republican, I really wonder if that author leans republican lol). That's extremely impractical (got to decide for each state, draw new borders, etc.) and just replicate the problem. He would argue for simple universal suffrage election, which solves the problem neatly, every vote has the same weight. No it's not. Blasey Ford was accusing Kavanaugh out of the blue as well. And that's the most charitable description. Try it then. Call me a pedophile on a big platform. Check how it goes for you. The bad faith of denying the difference between the Elon Musk accusation and the Dr Ford accusation isn't helping your argument. There's usually three reason sexual assault victims keeps quiet: 1) She knows the assaulter (family member or close friend) 2) Power dynamics (ie, a boss or weather individual 3) low self confidence due to shame Forgot a bunch. Wanting to make as if it never happened because it's too painful to think about it, for instance. Every one of those has more substantiation than Blasey Ford. Ahahahah I don't believe even for a second that you are familiar with all those French case that you never heard about before I mentioned them Whembly. Be honest. Yes. Really. It's pretty easy to believe that the first nominee was indeed a rapist. It's way, way less likely that three in a row are. Again, look at all the rape case I mentioned. No ideology, no circle is rapist-free. You believing when he said "we would pay less" tells me a lot. I should only believe him on when he says “The current system will cost that much in the future”. There is literally zero plans to apply any sort of downward pressure to reduce cost. Those will pop up soon enough when they realize how much they have to pay. I mean, at least they have the will to try something… The downward pressure may come from Democrats trying to get free college, but it *won't* happen from Republican thinking the system is fine as is. |
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 25, 2019 20:16:58 GMT -5
Well... yeah, if we have interests in certain things by definition it has to trump other folks. Is it moral? Sure, if you believe your adversary is intent to destroying you. I'd refer you to my quote about stealing from an abusive father but I'm not even sure if “Your adversary” here is supposed to be just the Iranian government or the whole population, and if it's the second case, if you are arguing that because of ignorance or disingenuity. So I'm going to ask you to expand a bit on that. Never the Persian people. Always the government that is the adversary. My co-worker is Persian who fled Iran after the sacking of the Shah. He still goes back every know and then, but explicitedly forbids bringing his wife and daughter to visit because of the regime. IF I'm understanding your question... you just register for it when you move. Keep in mind, each states manages the voting infrastructure. I think it'd create different sorts of problems. The current system is, what it is. It's not "gerrymandered" to GOP's benefit. Every candidate runs on these rules and realities. Indeed. You can sue me for libel. Your hurdle is much lower in proving that... than it is for Kavanaugh to sue Ford as he's a public figure. So the dynamics is different. I'm going to call BS on you calling my denial "bad faith". Elon Musk pulled an accusation out of thin air without substantiation. Ford pulled an accusation out of thin air without any substantiation as well. Not much difference imo. Unless, you can point out to me what exactly does Ford seems credible? We've been arguing peripherally about this, so let's get down to brass tacks. What is it that makes Ford credible? Sure. That's possible. Unfortunately, Ford's opportunity to hold Kavanaugh accountable was long passed. Ford "evidences" amounts to a literal "she said, he said". Just about any other case on the planet would have more substantiation one way or the other. So you are willing to condemn a man based on a word by a woman, who can't even pinpoint the exact time/place when it occured who doesn't have any other corroboration? Why should you believe him? Do you believe all of your politicians? Did you believe Obama when Americans would save roughly $2500 a year? Then you don't know ANYTHING about the college industry in the US. It would be the Republican party that would exert downward pressure on cost on this colleges? Colleges and Universities are literally DOMINATED by leftist/liberal ideologues. And they will NOT take massive cuts away from their schools. The BIGGEST driver of cost, is the fact that the quasi-public banks (Freddy Mae and Freddy Mac) are required too offer school loans to just about ANY student who files an application. The schools simply raise their rates every year, knowing the students can take more, and more loans and that the students can NEVER default on those loans. It's a parasitic relationship. |
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semipotentwalrus
Ye Olde King of OT
A somewhat powerful marine mammal.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 26, 2019 7:06:01 GMT -5
It's not gerrymandered to the GOP's advantage (i.e. it wasn't made this way to benefit the GOP) but the GOP also does benefit from it as though it were.
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Post by whemblycthulhu on Jul 26, 2019 9:47:29 GMT -5
It's not gerrymandered to the GOP's advantage (i.e. it wasn't made this way to benefit the GOP) but the GOP also does benefit from it as though it were. I know what you are trying to say... and I understand the premise. But there's no "act" of gerrymandering the Electoral College system as the two isn't synonymous. You may think both does the same thing... and if so, the relationship is tenuous. Its interesting people complain about the EC that Wyoming has more influence than CA on per-EC-vote... yet, I don't hear a peep from states like Rhode Island and Delaware. Why is that? |
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semipotentwalrus
Ye Olde King of OT
A somewhat powerful marine mammal.
Posts: 980
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 26, 2019 11:30:28 GMT -5
...because Wyoming is the smallest state and thus the one the most disproportioately represented?
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