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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 25, 2019 20:49:57 GMT -5
While we're on the subject, let's discuss the bail system for a bit. What's the moral justification of being able to pay your way out of police custody? I know it's far from US specific, but since it came up we might as well hash it over a bit.
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dusa
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 555
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Post by dusa on Jul 25, 2019 21:44:10 GMT -5
The extreme extension of that system was seen with Epstein.
During his imprisonment he was able to go on day release to work at his “job”, but that was only allowed if he also paid for a guard to monitor him at his job. So if you can afford to create a business that employs you and can also afford to pay the salary of custody staff, you can be in prison outside in your office.
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Post by A Town Called Malus on Jul 26, 2019 2:14:39 GMT -5
While we're on the subject, let's discuss the bail system for a bit. What's the moral justification of being able to pay your way out of police custody? I know it's far from US specific, but since it came up we might as well hash it over a bit. There isn't one. The only thing it does is preemptively punish poor people and force them to accept plea bargains because they cannot afford to sit in jail awaiting trial as they'll lose their job and they cannot afford bail. Well, that's not entirely true. It also helps predatory scumbag lawyers and bail bond companies as well as allowing the rich to escape justice because they have money. |
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CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on Jul 26, 2019 12:24:06 GMT -5
While we're on the subject, let's discuss the bail system for a bit. What's the moral justification of being able to pay your way out of police custody? I know it's far from US specific, but since it came up we might as well hash it over a bit. There isn't one. The only thing it does is preemptively punish poor people and force them to accept plea bargains because they cannot afford to sit in jail awaiting trial as they'll lose their job and they cannot afford bail. Well, that's not entirely true. It also helps predatory scumbag lawyers and bail bond companies as well as allowing the rich to escape justice because they have money. I suspect the latter is how it is designed and the former is just a by-product of the policy. |
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carlo87
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 663
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Post by carlo87 on Jul 26, 2019 15:18:16 GMT -5
Bail was created as a way to make it so defendants could more properly help in their own defense. The bond money put up was as an assurance that you would appear. Remember, you get the bond money back unless you fail to appear.
Bail bondsmen, and by extent bounty hunters, could be seen as predatory but they are also a necessary evil for allowing the poor access to bonds as well.
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dusa
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 555
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Post by dusa on Jul 26, 2019 16:09:17 GMT -5
Bail was created as a way to make it so defendants could more properly help in their own defense. The bond money put up was as an assurance that you would appear. Remember, you get the bond money back unless you fail to appear. Bail bondsmen, and by extent bounty hunters, could be seen as predatory but they are also a necessary evil for allowing the poor access to bonds as well. If bail works the way it should, poor people shouldn’t need bail bondsmen, because they should have a lower bail to begin with. The amount should be based on what it takes to get someone to show back up, that’s it. If a rich man and a poor man commit the same crime, they shouldn’t get the same bond. $100 can be a ton of money for someone and be enough to get them to show back up for it. |
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Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jul 26, 2019 16:27:12 GMT -5
Bail was created as a way to make it so defendants could more properly help in their own defense. The bond money put up was as an assurance that you would appear. Remember, you get the bond money back unless you fail to appear. Bail bondsmen, and by extent bounty hunters, could be seen as predatory but they are also a necessary evil for allowing the poor access to bonds as well. If bail works the way it should, poor people shouldn’t need bail bondsmen, because they should have a lower bail to begin with. The amount should be based on what it takes to get someone to show back up, that’s it. If a rich man and a poor man commit the same crime, they shouldn’t get the same bond. $100 can be a ton of money for someone and be enough to get them to show back up for it. There's also a point where a person ccan be so rich that the bail money put up is meaningless. Does anyone believe Epstein would hesitate to pay a 500 million dollar bail? A billion dollar bail? Literally any amount that he could actually pay if it meant he could flee the country and avoid prison? |
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dusa
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 555
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Post by dusa on Jul 26, 2019 17:45:42 GMT -5
Couple US citizens without due process finally getting out of immigration prison.
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carlo87
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 663
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Post by carlo87 on Jul 27, 2019 2:03:26 GMT -5
Supreme Court sides with Trump. Pentagon money to the border wall.
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Post by adurot on Jul 27, 2019 3:00:50 GMT -5
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 27, 2019 6:37:02 GMT -5
Yadda yadda warmth and depth yadda. But seriously he is the worst kind of self-centered, selfish jerk. His entire worldview revolves around him. His entirely value system is based on the notion that things that don't affect him or people similar to him are no big deal compared to things that affect him. Something that might have even the mildest drawback to him is an absolutely horrifying injustice. Things that would affect women, or POC? Well we'll just have to live with those, they are impossible to fix, and who cares really. You mentioned how he thinks “joking” about rape on the internet is an essential part of free speech that should be encouraged, but didn't mention how he threw a big, huge fit at people joking about him being milkshaked, and also at that one tweet: There isn't one. The only thing it does is preemptively punish poor people and force them to accept plea bargains because they cannot afford to sit in jail awaiting trial as they'll lose their job and they cannot afford bail. Well, that's not entirely true. It also helps predatory scumbag lawyers and bail bond companies as well as allowing the rich to escape justice because they have money. Capitalism! |
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Post by Least censored on the planet! on Jul 27, 2019 6:48:43 GMT -5
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 27, 2019 15:45:14 GMT -5
Trump's called Baltimore a "disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess". Good thing he hasn't had a private e-mail server though, that'd have been really bad!
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 29, 2019 6:40:32 GMT -5
So, what the everliving fuck is up with Georgia? I would have thought that a political party that deletes both the primary and backup data for election results when a suit is filed would be in a tiny bit of trouble, but I guess the US is currently an illustration of what happens when you put antidemocratic shitheads in power.
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CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
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Post by CommieCanUCK on Jul 29, 2019 10:53:45 GMT -5
The past couple decades of absurd lies about a nationwide gun grab and doctor death panels and even a deep state and secret muslim communists from various conservative media sources have been completely internalized by the bulk of the conservative mainstream. Any methods are acceptable, including outright cheating are acceptable because the alternative is worse.
It's the old "Better Dead than Red", but this time, it's fellow Americans who want a better life for everyone that are red. It's equal parts absurd and terrifying, like a toddler with a thermal detonator.
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