US and NA Politics (General)

[carlo87]

Jul 31, 2019 17:05:27 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:04:40 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

So, you partially proving my point is something that I'm supposed to argue against? I even stated that the process is slow and flawed and that it could be greatly improved, but was still a process. I provided several links showing the protocol for illegal detainees. The claim that this system had just simply stopped is laughably bad.

It didn't actually prove your point, the source specifically said only some children are getting days in court, and no one else. That it was an exception, and not the rule.

Cmon man, learn to read.

What your article stated was that some children have all ready gotten their day in court. That's literally it. Not that other people aren't, and not that it's the exception. Cmon man, learn to read. Detained people are in the system. Just because they haven't been to a hearing YET doesn't mean they aren't getting a hearing.  Like I said, this system is flawed, especially with the young minors. It definitely needs improvement. For most people things need to be sped up.

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

Jul 31, 2019 17:33:14 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:05:27 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

It didn't actually prove your point, the source specifically said only some children are getting days in court, and no one else. That it was an exception, and not the rule.

Cmon man, learn to read.

What your article stated was that some children have all ready gotten their day in court. That's literally it. Not that other people aren't, and not that it's the exception. Cmon man, learn to read. Detained people are in the system. Just because they haven't been to a hearing YET doesn't mean they aren't getting a hearing.  Like I said, this system is flawed, especially with the young minors. It definitely needs improvement. For most people things need to be sped up.

There's a quote in there (one that I actually quoted) saying otherwise.

[Least censored on the planet!]

Jul 31, 2019 16:42:40 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Kavanaugh said that the hit-job on his reputation and career was ruining his life.

Do you think that his life is ruined now? I mean, come on!!

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

also, reposting: www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-gets-expanded-power-to-swiftly-deport-more-undocumented-immigrants/

something something "they're getting their day in court!"

Also, after you posted your "source" you vanished and refused to respond.

Here was my reply on the subject by the way.

Jul 17, 2019 8:54:55 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 17, 2019 5:26:29 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

cis.org/Arthur/New-Immigration-Court-Statistics-Released

This shows that there is indeed an immigration court, and that they are having hearings. Tremendous backlog? yes, and it needs improvement. Now, any evidence that this process has stopped, as was claimed?

Woooooah woah woah there, don't move the goal posts. No one said "the process has stopped!" Instead, we said "immigrants in concentration camps aren't getting their day in court." Let's put those goalposts back where they belong, ok? Moving on from your blatant dishonesty there:

mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE, Reasoning: Extreme Right, Anti-Immigration Propaganda, Misleading Claims

and

CIS has also been accused of using poor methodology and cherry picking information. For example, in this strongly right leaning Cato Institute article dated 12/5/2018 “Center for Immigration Studies Overstates Immigrant, Non-Citizen, and Native Welfare Use” they report that “there are a few issues with the CIS report and an unsound methodological choice that they made that results in inflating the welfare use rates for immigrants and natives.” Cato also cited them in 2015 for exaggeration through cherry picking information.

In 2009, the SPLC pointed out four more studies that were debunked as being inaccurate, which you can read here.

(It's weird how you always use these REALLY awful sites to try and back up your claims, like every goddamn time. First it's "the radio show", then it was a nazi site, now it's an extremist anti-immigration site with ties to white nationalism?)

But lets move past that for a moment. Nowhere does this give proof that the migrants in the concentration camps are actually getting days in court. Not a single shred of evidence of a single one of them getting a day in court, a hearing or anything similar! It's just garbage about the courts and how there are cases being processed. Here, I'll do your job for you I guess since I found something:

www.texastribune.org/2018/06/27/immigrant-toddlers-ordered-appear-court-alone/

Immigrant toddlers ordered to appear in court alone

and

Leaders at three legal services organizations and a private firm confirmed that children are being served with notices to appear in court. They are not entitled to an attorney but rather are given a list of legal services organizations that might help them.

and of course it's got the stupidest defense

Ashley Tabaddor, president of the National Association of Immigration Judges and a jurist in Los Angeles, said that unaccompanied minor cases are heard on a special docket there. She said the judges who take the cases were trained during the last administration on children’s developmental stages, impulse control and making sure the proceedings are understandable to children.

This also makes it clear that the people getting days in court are the exception, not the rule (and ignores that they're not actually unaccompanied)

So there you go, that's the most proof we have that anyone from a concentration camp is getting a day in court, and it's literally in the worst possible way, and only applies to children, not adults. You got anything that's a reliable source that says otherwise? Something that shows immigrants in concentration camps actually getting a day in court?

[carlo87]

Jul 31, 2019 17:35:34 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:33:14 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

What your article stated was that some children have all ready gotten their day in court. That's literally it. Not that other people aren't, and not that it's the exception. Cmon man, learn to read. Detained people are in the system. Just because they haven't been to a hearing YET doesn't mean they aren't getting a hearing.  Like I said, this system is flawed, especially with the young minors. It definitely needs improvement. For most people things need to be sped up.

There's a quote in there (one that I actually quoted) saying otherwise.

I seriously suggest you reread it. It doesn't say that at all.

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

Jul 31, 2019 17:44:31 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:35:34 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

There's a quote in there (one that I actually quoted) saying otherwise.

I seriously suggest you reread it. It doesn't say that at all.

I suggest you do. Also, the thing about ICE being allowed to deport without due process.

Jul 17, 2019 8:54:55 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 17, 2019 5:26:29 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

cis.org/Arthur/New-Immigration-Court-Statistics-Released

This shows that there is indeed an immigration court, and that they are having hearings. Tremendous backlog? yes, and it needs improvement. Now, any evidence that this process has stopped, as was claimed?

Woooooah woah woah there, don't move the goal posts. No one said "the process has stopped!" Instead, we said "immigrants in concentration camps aren't getting their day in court." Let's put those goalposts back where they belong, ok? Moving on from your blatant dishonesty there:

mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE, Reasoning: Extreme Right, Anti-Immigration Propaganda, Misleading Claims

and

CIS has also been accused of using poor methodology and cherry picking information. For example, in this strongly right leaning Cato Institute article dated 12/5/2018 “Center for Immigration Studies Overstates Immigrant, Non-Citizen, and Native Welfare Use” they report that “there are a few issues with the CIS report and an unsound methodological choice that they made that results in inflating the welfare use rates for immigrants and natives.” Cato also cited them in 2015 for exaggeration through cherry picking information.

In 2009, the SPLC pointed out four more studies that were debunked as being inaccurate, which you can read here.

(It's weird how you always use these REALLY awful sites to try and back up your claims, like every goddamn time. First it's "the radio show", then it was a nazi site, now it's an extremist anti-immigration site with ties to white nationalism?)

But lets move past that for a moment. Nowhere does this give proof that the migrants in the concentration camps are actually getting days in court. Not a single shred of evidence of a single one of them getting a day in court, a hearing or anything similar! It's just garbage about the courts and how there are cases being processed. Here, I'll do your job for you I guess since I found something:

www.texastribune.org/2018/06/27/immigrant-toddlers-ordered-appear-court-alone/

Immigrant toddlers ordered to appear in court alone

and

Leaders at three legal services organizations and a private firm confirmed that children are being served with notices to appear in court. They are not entitled to an attorney but rather are given a list of legal services organizations that might help them.

and of course it's got the stupidest defense

Ashley Tabaddor, president of the National Association of Immigration Judges and a jurist in Los Angeles, said that unaccompanied minor cases are heard on a special docket there. She said the judges who take the cases were trained during the last administration on children’s developmental stages, impulse control and making sure the proceedings are understandable to children.

This also makes it clear that the people getting days in court are the exception, not the rule (and ignores that they're not actually unaccompanied)

So there you go, that's the most proof we have that anyone from a concentration camp is getting a day in court, and it's literally in the worst possible way, and only applies to children, not adults. You got anything that's a reliable source that says otherwise? Something that shows immigrants in concentration camps actually getting a day in court?

and

www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-gets-expanded-power-to-swiftly-deport-more-undocumented-immigrants/

[carlo87]

Jul 31, 2019 17:45:37 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:44:31 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

I seriously suggest you reread it. It doesn't say that at all.

I suggest you do. Also, the thing about ICE being allowed to deport without due process.

Jul 17, 2019 8:54:55 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Woooooah woah woah there, don't move the goal posts. No one said "the process has stopped!" Instead, we said "immigrants in concentration camps aren't getting their day in court." Let's put those goalposts back where they belong, ok? Moving on from your blatant dishonesty there:

mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/
and (It's weird how you always use these REALLY awful sites to try and back up your claims, like every goddamn time. First it's "the radio show", then it was a nazi site, now it's an extremist anti-immigration site with ties to white nationalism?)

But lets move past that for a moment. Nowhere does this give proof that the migrants in the concentration camps are actually getting days in court. Not a single shred of evidence of a single one of them getting a day in court, a hearing or anything similar! It's just garbage about the courts and how there are cases being processed. Here, I'll do your job for you I guess since I found something:

www.texastribune.org/2018/06/27/immigrant-toddlers-ordered-appear-court-alone/

and
and of course it's got the stupidest defense This also makes it clear that the people getting days in court are the exception, not the rule (and ignores that they're not actually unaccompanied)

So there you go, that's the most proof we have that anyone from a concentration camp is getting a day in court, and it's literally in the worst possible way, and only applies to children, not adults. You got anything that's a reliable source that says otherwise? Something that shows immigrants in concentration camps actually getting a day in court?

and

www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-gets-expanded-power-to-swiftly-deport-more-undocumented-immigrants/

Your source states it's LESS due process, not none. And for the record, I'm actually against that one.

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

Jul 31, 2019 17:52:46 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:45:37 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

I suggest you do. Also, the thing about ICE being allowed to deport without due process.

and

www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-gets-expanded-power-to-swiftly-deport-more-undocumented-immigrants/

Your source states it's LESS due process, not none. And for the record, I'm actually against that one.

So, no due process. What do you have showing otherwise?

[whemblycthulhu]

Jul 31, 2019 16:39:26 GMT -5 Least censored on the planet! said:

Jul 31, 2019 14:52:00 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Weren't people here referring to it as "Merrick Garland's seat" or "his seat" on past pages?

Can we agree that “not having a seat in the supreme court” does imply that your life has been ruined, right?

Can we agree that had Kavanaugh not been confirmed, that his reputation and thus his personal/work life would be ruined?  He'd be a sitting DC Appellet Judge who couldn't get confirmed (or nomination rescinded) based on a "he said, she said" accusation.

[whemblycthulhu]

Jul 31, 2019 17:23:30 GMT -5 CommieCanUCK said:

Is this one of the fundamental disconnects between a lib and a con?

Unless the woman screams and tries to fight off her attacker, it ain't rape?

It is when one side purposely misinterpret what that other was trying to say.

[carlo87]

Jul 31, 2019 17:54:33 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:52:46 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Your source states it's LESS due process, not none. And for the record, I'm actually against that one.

So, no due process. What do you have showing otherwise?

You mean other than your own source? It still states that they have a chance to prove they aren't illegal. It's a shitty chance, and I disagree with the policy, but at least some due process is still there.

Also, nice goalpost move from people in detention centers to at-large illegals living off the books for more than 2 years.

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

Jul 31, 2019 21:36:56 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Jul 31, 2019 17:54:33 GMT -5 Emblematic Wolfblade said:

So, no due process. What do you have showing otherwise?

You mean other than your own source? It still states that they have a chance to prove they aren't illegal. It's a shitty chance, and I disagree with the policy, but at least some due process is still there.

Also, nice goalpost move from people in detention centers to at-large illegals living off the books for more than 2 years.

I'm not moving the goalposts, what do you have to show people in the concentration camps are getting their due process?

[Least censored on the planet!]

Jul 31, 2019 19:24:55 GMT -5 whemblycthulhu said:

Can we agree that had Kavanaugh not been confirmed, that his reputation and thus his personal/work life would be ruined? 

No. How would that ruin his personal life? Would it destroy his relationship with his friends and his family? Would it make him economically miserable? Nonsense.

Jul 31, 2019 19:24:55 GMT -5 whemblycthulhu said:

He'd be a sitting DC Appellet Judge who couldn't get confirmed (or nomination rescinded) based on a "he said, she said" accusation.

You do realize that "he said, she said" is, like, every rape case where the rape wasn't recorded and happened without a third-party witness watching it ?

If your response to "he said, she said" is to attack the victim, you can be sure that this will enable rapes to proliferate.

[A Town Called Malus]

On the subject of due process by immigration.

Recently a 9 year old american girl was held for 32 hours with no access to her parents or a legal representative by immigration authorities. She was crossing the border with her 14 year old brother to go to school (they live in tijuana). She had her american passport.

Her brother was pressured to try and get him to confess to human trafficking.

The reason for her being kidnapped for 32 hours despite having identification proving she was an american citizen? The immigration officers thought that her responses to their questions were suspicious and inconsistent.

She was 9 years old.

[adurot]

theintercept.com/2019/06/22/cbp-border-searches-journalists/