|
Post by hatoflords on Jan 19, 2021 23:57:24 GMT -5
I think that's why he's not going to do it. The lawyers seem to have been trying to explain that pardoning his family just gives prosecutors an opening to compel their testimony. Pardoning himself is essentially admitting guilt, which will be a problem if self-pardons get challenged in court (and I think they will lose in court).
People have mentioned the idea of him issuing secret pardons, but I think that would be laughed out of the courthouse. The letter of the constitution isn't the only basis for US law. Precedent is and rules lawyering rarely succeeds in courts (paradoxically). "Technically it doesn't say I have to make the pardon public." Ironically, the fabled originalism Conservatives love so much provides the direct answer to the question. The entire point of a pardon, all the way back to the European kings who originated the concept is that a pardon is a public declaration of clemency. It was never intended as something you hide, nor was it understood as something that was ever not public by the authors of the Constitution. Pardons by definition cannot be secret and have never been issued in secret. A secret pardon is not a pardon at all. It's simply another constitutional abuse Trump would more than likely lose before judges.
|
|
|
Post by semipotentwalrus on Jan 20, 2021 9:26:21 GMT -5
On the subject of rules-lawyering, I had the thought a few days ago that the US is in the position it is because your culture is, essentially, the real-world equivalent of TFG or a WAAC player in 40k (and I say this as a grade-A Munchkin in most games I play; if there's a rule-set I like taking it apart). You are, as a country, obsessed with whether something is legal or not. To sum up the ethos I'm talking about in one saying, "better to ask for forgiveness than persmission".
Tie this in to the idea of rugged individualism and I'd argue that what American culture worships and demands above all else isn't actually freedom, but control or, more specifically, being in control. America has never been great because of "peronal responsibility" or a "protestant work ethic" or such nonsense; the greatness has come, in part, from a willingness to use any trick in the book, no matter how ugly, as long as it wasn't illegal. "Freedom" in this context is the freedom to not worry about the consequences of your actions. Assuming this definition, the whole thing about "cancel culture" or Twitter banning Trump actually IS about freedom the way freedom has always been used in the US.
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Jan 20, 2021 9:37:44 GMT -5
Its a 2th edition rulebook trying to accommodate 9th ed. army books.
You get that because just like GW, the US system was designed for playing together in a good faith 'beer and pretzels' manner and not overly specific. Which gave the WAAC players an enormous opening to fuck about. The amount of rules that should principally apply to just the President alone, but don't explicitly say so (pardons, emoluments, nepotism), is only the (now very obvious) tip of the iceberg. The further we move away from 2nd ed., the worse the cracks become, just look at the difference between the response to Nixon and now Trump.
The amount of work required to overhaul the system and close all the loopholes seems like an impossible task in US politics today. Kind of like trying to play WHFB in a GW store.
The only sad thing about Trump no longer being on Twitter is that we won't be able to read his tantrum tweets in real time as Biden tears his admin down.
|
|
|
Post by hatoflords on Jan 20, 2021 11:51:33 GMT -5
On the subject of rules-lawyering, I had the thought a few days ago that the US is in the position it is because your culture is, essentially, the real-world equivalent of TFG or a WAAC player in 40k (and I say this as a grade-A Munchkin in most games I play; if there's a rule-set I like taking it apart). You are, as a country, obsessed with whether something is legal or not. To sum up the ethos I'm talking about in one saying, "better to ask for forgiveness than persmission". Tie this in to the idea of rugged individualism and I'd argue that what American culture worships and demands above all else isn't actually freedom, but control or, more specifically, being in control. America has never been great because of "peronal responsibility" or a "protestant work ethic" or such nonsense; the greatness has come, in part, from a willingness to use any trick in the book, no matter how ugly, as long as it wasn't illegal. "Freedom" in this context is the freedom to not worry about the consequences of your actions. Assuming this definition, the whole thing about "cancel culture" or Twitter banning Trump actually IS about freedom the way freedom has always been used in the US. See I don't think we are/were. It's a very recent development.
That said, the US has historically been much more flexible about policy making and Constitutional questions in the past than it is today. I rather like the idea that we were willing to use any dirty trick in the book so long as it wasn't outright illegal. It's a rather apt description of how this country has often operated. I think though, and I actually have the background to feel like I can say this with relevant expertise, is that things have shifted toward a radical puritan slant the past few decades, and a big part of the problem we have now is a cultural conflict between people who want to embrace creative solutions to problems and people who just want to be on top at any cost.
Whether or not something is 'constitutional' is all encompassing now but it didn't used to be. The obsession with constitutional purity is relatively new. I'd argue it didn't really exist before the Civil Rights era, where American politics and discourse were far less obsessed with constitutionality and the worship of the founding document of the nation was less worship and more respect. I think you nail what this push for purity is really about; control. There's a reason it was championed by American conservatives in the wake of the Civil Rights and Great Society eras and there's a reason American conservatism is predominantly the domain of older white men. Without a doubt, Cancel culture is a farce. It's not about freedom at all imo. It's about normalizing and validating extremism and forging a fallacious connection between common people and old power elites who are afraid of losing privileges they have traditionally had. That privilege is (heh) white and generally built on the notion that America is for people who are white/Christian/and 'free' and everyone else needs to be controlled so those people can stay white/christian/ and 'free.'
Honestly, Mike Lee exemplified this not that long ago when he raved against Democracy and letting people vote as being anti-Liberty. Read between the lines and you can see what he's really adovating; the Republic exists for proper Americans. Everyone else is in the way and Conservatism talks around this ideology so much I'm not sure they even recognize how central it is to everything they do anymore. So many of the conservative paragons are just... so fucking stupid. They're like parrots. It's really hard to tell how many of them actually understand conservatism as an ideology and how many are just virtue signalling their allegance to it with no deeper appreciation. It's like the ship was launched and the crew got old and died and now the new crew is simply doing the same shit with no idea what's going on.
And because this is rather complicated, there is also the counter push from the Left. Aware of past abuses of the systems of the nation to ensure certain people would always be on top, some of us find appeal in the idea of constitutional purity as a panacea to the nation's ills. I think this is fallacious, but it does explain why constitutional purity would become significant for the left too and it is significant on the left as well. Might even help explain the increasingly tense and bitter partisanship of the country as we now live in a nation where the left and right have radically different ideas about what the Constitution exists to do.
|
|
|
Post by steelmage99 on Jan 20, 2021 12:16:24 GMT -5
That is it, then.
|
|
|
Post by hatoflords on Jan 20, 2021 12:28:54 GMT -5
And oh boy oh boy. Rumors swirl that Donald Trump wants to start a third political party (patriot party, hahahahahahaha). Perfect. Do it. Let the right eat itself. Even as a small third party, having to compete with them could cost Republican's elections across the nation.
|
|
CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
|
Post by CommieCanUCK on Jan 20, 2021 12:46:53 GMT -5
Deplorables cry about 'cancel culture' because it eats into the myth that they are the silent majority.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 15:06:58 GMT -5
Deplorables cry about 'cancel culture' because it eats into the myth that they are the silent majority. The rest of us decry it because it's stupid beyond belief. 'We need to burn down the Mandalorian because Gina Carano doesn't agree with us! Never mind that it's the best thing Star Wars has done in years, it must all burn!" This madness is just as bad as anything that MAGAheads have come up with.
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jan 20, 2021 15:25:04 GMT -5
Deplorables cry about 'cancel culture' because it eats into the myth that they are the silent majority. The rest of us decry it because it's stupid beyond belief. 'We need to burn down the Mandalorian because Gina Carano doesn't agree with us! Never mind that it's the best thing Star Wars has done in years, it must all burn!" This madness is just as bad as anything that MAGAheads have come up with. Where have you seen this? This sounds like bullshit. The only thing close to this I’ve seen is some lefties hoping they’ll get her character off the show. I’ve not seen or heard of anyone who wants the show cancelled. And if some people don’t want to support the actress because of what she tweets, that’s the free market. I wouldn’t expect righties support Brie Larson, either. That’s not cancel culture.
|
|
CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
|
Post by CommieCanUCK on Jan 20, 2021 15:34:48 GMT -5
I wanted her off Mando ten seconds into her first scene because she's a terrible actress. Then I heard she was also a terrible person.
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jan 20, 2021 15:58:59 GMT -5
I wanted her off Mando ten seconds into her first scene because she's a terrible actress. Then I heard she was also a terrible person. I don’t think she’s terrible. She’s not great, not like someone who studied to become an actor, but like Gal Gadot I think she made the character she plays feel unique. I also don’t care if she stays on the show. I like her character, and sonar as I know she hasn’t done or said anything quite so abusive or vile as, say, Mel Gibson or Alec Baldwin.
|
|
CommieCanUCK
Ye Olde King of OT
The poster formerly known as feeder
Posts: 979
|
Post by CommieCanUCK on Jan 20, 2021 16:36:07 GMT -5
I mean, she's the weakest link on a cast that includes a standup comic, a psychotic nursemaid droid that is entirely CGI and a baby that is an actual puppet.
Is she a bigot like Gibson, or an objectively horrible person like Baldwin? I doubt it, but that's not my problem with her.
I am 100% OK with cancelling the careers of anti-maskers.
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jan 20, 2021 16:40:53 GMT -5
Fair enough.
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Jan 20, 2021 17:02:33 GMT -5
Deplorables cry about 'cancel culture' because it eats into the myth that they are the silent majority. The rest of us decry it because it's stupid beyond belief. 'We need to burn down the Mandalorian because Gina Carano doesn't agree with us! Never mind that it's the best thing Star Wars has done in years, it must all burn!" This madness is just as bad as anything that MAGAheads have come up with. I want to point out people like Gina Carano are literally killing us with their anti-mask bullshit and their stoking of the voter fraud bullshit. I think it's totally reasonable to want her out of the show, and I think you're misunderstanding what people want. People don't want Mando canceled, they just want her out of it.
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Jan 20, 2021 17:40:35 GMT -5
Wait. Is she just a right wing antimasker or a full on Stop the Steal QAnon type?
|
|