|
Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 9, 2023 4:44:52 GMT -5
Just on the vaccine, this is clearly you not understanding their intent and expectation.
Vaccines are immune system primers. And I’d like to provide a video game based analogy, via Super Metroid.
Consider the Boss Fight against Draygon.
He can be a tough boss to fight, as you’re contending with Draygon, wall turrets and Draygon’s mini-mes. Not only is the screen full of stuff to dodge, but his spawn can intercept shots, wasting missiles and making your job even harder. It is winnable, but can be taxing and frustrating. Draygon has a grappling attack where he bites your head and slaps your bum with his tail. You’re always oriented away from him, so whilst you can still fire, you can’t hit Draygon himself.
But, I can offer you a Vaccine Of Knowledge, to make defeating this boss a doddle.
See, when you destroy the wall turrets, their sockets spark. And by this point in the game, you’ll have the Grapple Beam. Simply wipe out as many turrets as you can. Let Draygon grapple you, then switch to your grapple beam - and fire that into a sparking socket. Presto Bongo, Draygon is rapidly executed, and you can wrap up that boss fight in absolutely no time. It does still drain your energy, but pretty sure you’ll always survive it. Certainly on my many, many playthroughs of Super Metroid, Draygon has never outlasted me.
The Vaccine is giving your body a chance to figure out its defence. It’s not a shield against ever contracting the disease. No vaccine ever is a shield, because, say it with me that’s not what anyone except snake oil shills and cretins claim. They’re immune system primers, so if you do get infected, your immune system can deal with it quickly and efficiently. To the point you may not even notice, because the virus doesn’t get a chance to build up numbers.
That we sometimes display symptoms following vaccine? That shows it’s working, as symptoms are side effects of your immune system doing its job. Fever, for instance, is you raising your body temperature, ideally to a degree the virus can’t handle, but your body can. Like Japanese Honey Bees mobbing Hornets, because they can tolerate a degree or two higher, letting them cook the Hornet whilst not killing any of their own number - or at least suffering far fewer casualties than letting the Hornet bring its mates round.
|
|
|
Covid-19
Mar 9, 2023 6:38:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pacific on Mar 9, 2023 6:38:28 GMT -5
Great post MDG
I would say most of the claims in the other post are nuttery, with the exception of the lab leak theory. Just been listening (am halfway through) a Sam Harris podcast on that topic talking with some experts on virology. They will never say something is 'certain', and apparently it's almost impossible to tell if a virus has been gene-edited, but lots of the evidence which has come out of reports from the last year as well as corroborating evidence would indicate that it may be a lab leak. Listening to the reports it seemed very much like the events leading up to Chernobyl, where there the 'swiss cheese' model of error prevention was bypassed by a combination of events. The biggest and most egregious failure being that it may have been an attempt to create a setting for viral treatments (Covid/SARS family viruses) and this then escaped.
I do still have to finish the podcast, I have another hour or so to listen but the evidence presented thus far (at least to me as a layman on the topic) seemed pretty damning.
|
|
skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 344
|
Post by skyth on Mar 9, 2023 7:16:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Covid-19
Mar 9, 2023 7:16:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by tannhauser42 on Mar 9, 2023 7:16:39 GMT -5
Part of the problem is that the people in charge had to deal with the Average American*.
N95 is what should be worn, but when you see hoarders and resellers scooping them all up, leaving none for healthcare, then you tell people to wear lesser masks. Were cloth masks particularly effective? No, but if that's what you can get people to wear, then you go with it, because people are children and well fight you every step of the way.
*Insert George Carlin quote about average human intelligence here.
|
|
|
Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 9, 2023 7:49:58 GMT -5
It’s also mitigation.
We don’t simply breathe out the virus. It’s locked up in moisture. Masks? absorb some of that moisture, reducing the overall airborne virus load.
As I explained to QAR, who of course did his best to ignore or misconstrue? It’s the accumulation of precautions.
Consider a car from the 1950’s, and a car from 2023. Both are driven into a post at 65mph. Due to the gradual progression of Car Safety Features, you the driver and your passengers are far, far less likely to sustain serious or life threatening injuries in the 2023 car than the 1950’s car. Crumple zones, seatbelts being compulsory, airbags, stronger materials. Individually none of those will guarantee survival. But working in concert? Then add in ABS, brakes just being….better. Tyres being better, and in the 2023 car, you’ve a greater chance of stopping the impact in the first place.
So a non-N95 Mask isn’t foolproof - but it reduces the viral load in the air. Washing your hands helps. Sanitising helps. Not coming within 6’ of me….helps. Wearing gloves is another simple precaution which helps reduce the risk as much as possible.
I mean, those opposed to precautionary measures. Shoving your dick in a toaster whilst taking a bath is a great way to cause yourself excruciating pain if not death. But even a clear sky can still produce lightning - and that bolt could still electrocute you. But that lower risk doesn’t mean you should shove your dick in a toaster whilst taking a bath. The two are not the same level of risk.
When crossing the road, you can look both ways from a clear location using a pedestrian crossing in the appropriate way - and there’s still a chance you’ll get run over. Probably by some Cunt in a BMW. That doesn’t mean it’s therefore Just As Safe to blindfold yourself and run out from between parked vans across a dual carriageway hoping for the best.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
|
Post by herzlos on Mar 9, 2023 7:51:26 GMT -5
Cloth masks still prevented people coughing on each other, and got them to pay some kind of attention.
Of course, when you add in the people who believe that having a cloth mask attached to you somehow makes it a magic talisman that makes you immune to covid and then ignore all of the other stuff like distancing and hygiene it becomes counterproductive.
I'm honestly not sure that there's anything that would have worked for the average American once the anti-vaxxers took hold.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 700
|
Post by herzlos on Mar 9, 2023 8:40:33 GMT -5
Gloves was a particular annoyance of mine - the idea with gloves is you put them on, do something dirty and then take them off again, thus the dirty activity didn't get on your hands. Job done.
What happened in reality was that some people would put gloves on and wear them all over the place. Touching everything, shopping, their money, picking their nose, driving to another store, then touching everything. As if the gloves would prevent all virus spread.
|
|
|
Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 9, 2023 9:09:26 GMT -5
Gloves was a particular annoyance of mine - the idea with gloves is you put them on, do something dirty and then take them off again, thus the dirty activity didn't get on your hands. Job done. What happened in reality was that some people would put gloves on and wear them all over the place. Touching everything, shopping, their money, picking their nose, driving to another store, then touching everything. As if the gloves would prevent all virus spread. Yeah. However, I’m not sure that was communicated particularly well. One of the downsides to being of Above Average Intelligence is seeing how many folk need what you consider basic knowledge explained to them. That’s the government’s job, and I feel they dropped the ball on gloves and their appropriate usage. Another downside is when you’re completely honest with yourself, and realise you’re plenty capable of doing Really Stupid Things 😂😂
|
|
grog
OT Initiate
Posts: 60
|
Covid-19
Mar 9, 2023 11:17:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by grog on Mar 9, 2023 11:17:50 GMT -5
Normal vaccines, actual vaccines, are a weakened form of the disease and train your body to fight it the same way as having been infected; that’s durable, broad immunity that lasts. The normal infection fighting process.
The mrna is a totally different substance with a different purpose, it temporarily lessens symptoms. That’s it, no immunity. You still get covid while you are vaccinated and after the efficacy wears off you get reinfected anyway.
|
|
|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Mar 9, 2023 11:41:19 GMT -5
That can still make all the difference. My SILs both got long Covid, which affected their quality of life and employment for months, maybe even a year. My wife’s favorite aunt (unvaxxed) died after weeks in the hospital. My wife got Covid after being vaxxed, and it was basically a flu. She didn’t even pass it to me or our son, the viral load was so low. My MiL was vaxxed, got Covid while being in worse health than my Aunt in law, and she didn’t even need to go to the hospital.
When I finally got Covid, I barely noticed. Didn’t lose my senses of taste or smell, didn’t get the vision problems or (additional) heart problems. If I had been unvaxxed, it would have been worse.
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Mar 9, 2023 11:45:09 GMT -5
Normal vaccines, actual vaccines, are a weakened form of the disease and train your body to fight it the same way as having been infected; that’s durable, broad immunity that lasts. That's sometimes durable sometimes not durable protection, depending on which virus we are talking about, hence why you have to update some vaccines more often than other. The normal infection fighting process. The mrna is a totally different substance with a different purpose, it temporarily lessens symptoms. That’s it, no immunity. You still get covid while you are vaccinated and after the efficacy wears off you get reinfected anyway. the same.FTFY
|
|
|
Post by maddocgrotsnik on Mar 9, 2023 11:51:11 GMT -5
Normal vaccines, actual vaccines, are a weakened form of the disease and train your body to fight it the same way as having been infected; that’s durable, broad immunity that lasts. The normal infection fighting process. The mrna is a totally different substance with a different purpose, it temporarily lessens symptoms. That’s it, no immunity. You still get covid while you are vaccinated and after the efficacy wears off you get reinfected anyway. Source, please.
|
|
|
Post by Disciple of Fate on Mar 9, 2023 12:14:42 GMT -5
Even if true, as Bob says, the (past) massive statistical difference in hospital admittance between the vaccinated and unvaccinated speaks for itself.
|
|
|
Post by Peregrine on Mar 9, 2023 12:23:40 GMT -5
Oh look, the conclusive proof that you don't know what you're talking about. In some cases. In others it only lasts for a shorter time and you need booster shots to keep it current. Covid just happens to be on the short end of the scale. No, it's literally the same mechanism as any other vaccine and you're just ignorant. The vaccine produces covid targets, your immune system attacks them and builds the memory, and when you're exposed to real covid your immune system reacts faster and more effectively and prevents the virus from doing much damage before it is eliminated. That's how literally every single vaccine works. Sometimes you get a minor infection, sometimes you get a breakthrough infection and get seriously sick even though you had the vaccine. There are only two differences with covid: 1) The mRNA technique temporarily hijacks some of your own cells to produce large numbers of the practice target vs. having to manufacture dead copies of the virus externally. Same outcome once your immune system sees it, different way of accomplishing the first step. 2) There's a lot of awareness of covid so people are more likely to take a test and see if they have it when they experience minor symptoms. When you experience minor symptoms from some other virus you grumble and assume you have a cold, you don't go out and do a bunch of testing to figure out if it's really a cold or if it's a minor case of something you were vaccinated against. That's it. The only question here is whether you're willing to listen to new information, or if you'll just bury your head in the sand and retreat to whatever right-wing echo chamber you came from.
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 902
|
Post by Haighus on Mar 9, 2023 12:39:29 GMT -5
Normal vaccines, actual vaccines, are a weakened form of the disease and train your body to fight it the same way as having been infected; that’s durable, broad immunity that lasts. The normal infection fighting process. The mrna is a totally different substance with a different purpose, it temporarily lessens symptoms. That’s it, no immunity. You still get covid while you are vaccinated and after the efficacy wears off you get reinfected anyway. Very few modern vaccines feature a weakened form of the disease- these are known as "live" vaccines. The commonest are the yellow fever vaccine, the BCG TB vaccine, some 'flu vaccines, and the oral polio vaccine (this has been replaced by an injected vaccine that is not live in wealthier countries). The smallpox vaccine is also live, but uncommonly used due to the eradication of smallpox. Some vaccines use dead pathogen, like the diphtheria vaccine. Some use a toxin produced by the pathogen. Most however use fragments of a pathogen that are antigens and trigger an immune response. The COVID vaccines work in this manner, although they do use a new technology to create the specific antigen, their mechanism of action is identical in supplying an antigen to trigger the immune response. All of these provide varying levels of response durability. Yellow fever is a live vaccine that provides good immunity for about 2-5 years. The HPV vaccine uses antigens that provides immunity for at least ten years, and probably life-long immunity, from two doses given as a teenager. The 'flu vaccine uses either a weakened live virus or dead virus and only provides partial protection for a single year, with much diminished protection in subsequent years. The tetanus vaccine targets a toxin and gives great immunity for ten years, then needs a booster. The BCG only gives 20-80% protection against TB infection if given before the age of 30 (it is more effective the younger the recipient), but this is lifelong protection and it is good enough to reduce TB in a population. A lot of these don't prevent someone from developing symptoms of the infection, but they typically reduce the severity by priming the immune system to knock out the infection quickly. This also usually reduces transmission by reducing duration of illness and severity of symptoms that aid transmission (like coughing). The COVID vaccine is a good example of this, and massively reduces the lethality and severity of a COVID infection. Basically, vaccine efficacy and durability is all over the place, and the COVID vaccine is not massively unusual. Immunology is ridiculously complicated. One thing to note about the COVID vaccine is that there is no evidence that it reduces transmission rates, but also no evidence that it has no effect of transmission rates. This is due to insufficient data. Logically the COVID vaccine will reduce transmission by reducing symptoms and duration of infection, but this is an unproven hypothesis.
|
|