mdgv2
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 812
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Post by mdgv2 on Jul 11, 2024 3:34:32 GMT -5
So with the current Biden situation, how do this actually work?
If I’ve read right, he’s only the presumed nominee - nothing is yet set in stone?
Are there set, national rules or does each party have its own process, however similar/completely identical?]
Please nothing about the specific candidates. Just info on the process, in the hope of hopefully bipartisan, clear understanding.
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Post by whembly on Jul 11, 2024 11:07:17 GMT -5
...the discussion was perfectly civil up until you decided to pull the equivalent of shitting on someone's carpet. But, that's how ya'll treat opposing views. Ya'll want an echo chamber to avoid having a debate from someone who thinks differently than you do. Oh well... your loss. Enjoy your echo chamber.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 11, 2024 11:57:51 GMT -5
...the discussion was perfectly civil up until you decided to pull the equivalent of shitting on someone's carpet. But, that's how ya'll treat opposing views. Ya'll want an echo chamber to avoid having a debate from someone who thinks differently than you do.
If you had to debate someone who self-admittedly doesn't read their own sources, how would you do it? How do you figure there's going to be any sort of "debate" when you only self-reflect when your face is pushed into your own actions? For example, you spent years going after Clinton for Benghazi and her e-mails and yet here you are, talking about "lawfare" as though Trump isn't guilty as sin.
I'm not ragging on you because you have a different opinion than I do, I'm ragging on you because the method through which you reach that opinion is broken. You can go in the UK election reform thread and see if Peregrine and I sound like we're in an echo chamber because we sure as fuck don't agree on what constitutes democracy, and that's just off the top of my head from the last week or so!
Put yourself in the shoes of the rest of the forum for a moment: everyone here knows "whembly and Benghazi" was borderline a meme on Dakka, how you'd relentlessly keep posting about it. You've repeatedly attacked the idea that anthropogenic climate change is real, culminating in you having to admit that you don't read your own sources. Given that:
1: You're always posting pro-Republican or anti-Democratic points of view; 2: You've been demonstrably arguing in bad faith in the past and; 3: Everyone on this forum knows the above two;
why on Earth do you expect anyone to treat you as having any sort of credibility whatsoever? Being an asshole is one thing; I've been one myself on many occasions even though I shouldn't. That's something that can be apologized for and fixed. Knowingly lying and being caught doing it though? Why should anyone take your word for anything? You've already demonstrated that you'll lie when it's convenient for you, why should we assume that this time is any different? It's not your opinions, it's you. This is what we desperately tried to get across when RiTides was setting the ETC forums up: if people post in bad faith there's not going to be any useful debate going forward, because that person will already have demonstrated that they'll lie to your face if they think they can get away with it. As you put it, when you've "prostituted your credibility" for over a decade and we've all seen the receipts, why would anyone be willing to entertain that what you're saying isn't just more of the same? In my own case it's a mix of stubbornness, a gluttony for making needlessly elaborate forum posts, and holding out hope against hope that one day I'll get to see the whembly that, in your own words, "will do better and try not to be so lazy."
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Post by Haighus on Jul 11, 2024 12:20:56 GMT -5
I do continue to scratch my head when people say this place is an echo chamber. We've talked about nuance blindness before, but I'm beginning to wonder if it is something even more basic, like the majority agree on one particular issue therefore we are all the same (such as agreeing on disliking Trump, even though there are disagreements over loads of other topics)- "single issue blindness" perhaps.
Or maybe it is just raw tribalism- there is "us" and "not-us" and they assume the latter is homogenous.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 981
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Post by herzlos on Jul 11, 2024 12:51:13 GMT -5
I think it's Tribalism. I rarely see any differing opinions within groups on the right, to the point you can almost predict what they'll say, but I rarely see agreement between anything on the left. So I wonder if the right think that the left are as unified and potentially aren't reading enough of it to notice the difference. Kinda like how the MAGAs always seem to assume the Dems worship Biden as some kind of God-Emperor despite virtually none of them actually liking him
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 435
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Post by skyth on Jul 11, 2024 13:00:12 GMT -5
Every accusation is an admission?
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mdgv2
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 812
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Post by mdgv2 on Jul 11, 2024 15:37:52 GMT -5
For fuck’s sake.
Can anyone ignore a troll and offer answers to my previous message?
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Post by Haighus on Jul 11, 2024 16:10:11 GMT -5
I think it's Tribalism. I rarely see any differing opinions within groups on the right, to the point you can almost predict what they'll say, but I rarely see agreement between anything on the left. So I wonder if the right think that the left are as unified and potentially aren't reading enough of it to notice the difference. Kinda like how the MAGAs always seem to assume the Dems worship Biden as some kind of God-Emperor despite virtually none of them actually liking him I dunno, the right wing in the UK just imploded into infighting, and the US right wing is a constant fight between red and blue couldn't even unite behind a choice for speaker for weeks.
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Post by crispy78 on Jul 11, 2024 16:11:20 GMT -5
My understanding is yeah, he could be replaced - but there's an issue with the fundraising. As it's intended to be a Biden / Harris ticket, if he's replaced by anyone other than Harris they couldn't then use the current donated funds and would need to start afresh. Back me up on this one, US guys?
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Post by Peregrine on Jul 11, 2024 16:53:14 GMT -5
Ya'll want an echo chamber to avoid having a debate from someone who thinks differently than you do. We have plenty of disagreement and debate. We just don't have any interest in having it with YOU because you have consistently demonstrated your inability and/or unwillingness to engage in good faith. You lie, you ignore anything that proves you wrong, and then you come back later to repeat the same old partisan talking points as if none of the previous debate ever happened. The only difference is that here you don't have dakka's "politeness at all costs" nonsense to hide behind and we can be honest in calling you what you are.
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Post by Peregrine on Jul 11, 2024 17:09:05 GMT -5
So with the current Biden situation, how do this actually work? If I’ve read right, he’s only the presumed nominee - nothing is yet set in stone? Are there set, national rules or does each party have its own process, however similar/completely identical?] Please nothing about the specific candidates. Just info on the process, in the hope of hopefully bipartisan, clear understanding. Presidential nominations in the US are handled by the party. The various primaries are not binding, the parties have historically always followed the results of their primaries and chosen the winner as their candidate but they aren't legally required to do so. Either party (and any minor party that manages to get on the ballot) could, if they wish, declare me as their candidate for 2024 regardless of any votes or polls. But this would have to be an extreme situation to be plausible as the PR backlash from appointing a candidate other than the one chosen by the voters would be significant unless there is a clear justification for it (like Biden suffering a stroke and being mentally incapacitated).
Biden's status as the presumed nominee due to being the incumbent president is also only historical tradition. So far every time the incumbent president has wanted to keep the job he has been chosen as his party's candidate but this is only tradition and good strategy (incumbent advantage is powerful). There is nothing guaranteeing that nomination, and in fact minor candidates have attempted to challenge the incumbent in the primaries (and inevitably lost by massive margins). In Biden's case no serious primary challenger even attempted to run and at this point it is far too late for anyone to try, most primaries have already happened.
Each party has its rules on paper but none of them are legally binding. The only thing preventing the parties from changing their internal rules is the PR backlash that would likely happen if those rules were changed this late in the process, especially with obvious intent to go against the will of the people and select a different candidate.
There is some question about fundraising money which may be allocated specifically to Biden's campaign and could not be transferred to his replacement. The party could decide to forfeit that money and begin fundraising for the replacement and presumably some of those donors would donate the returned money right back to the new candidate but it's a non-trivial financial incentive to keep Biden in place.
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herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 981
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Post by herzlos on Jul 11, 2024 19:02:51 GMT -5
I think it's Tribalism. I rarely see any differing opinions within groups on the right, to the point you can almost predict what they'll say, but I rarely see agreement between anything on the left. So I wonder if the right think that the left are as unified and potentially aren't reading enough of it to notice the difference. Kinda like how the MAGAs always seem to assume the Dems worship Biden as some kind of God-Emperor despite virtually none of them actually liking him I dunno, the right wing in the UK just imploded into infighting, and the US right wing is a constant fight between red and blue couldn't even unite behind a choice for speaker for weeks.
The right wing politicians / parties have imploded, but the right wing voters seem to be just as unified and uninformed. I'm not sure how that works but the cynic in me thinks some only have the opinion the Daily Mail gave them that week, and so there's nothing for them to argue with other people who get told the same opinion. Maybe I'm missing some nuance though.
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Post by whembly on Jul 11, 2024 22:47:07 GMT -5
But, that's how ya'll treat opposing views. Ya'll want an echo chamber to avoid having a debate from someone who thinks differently than you do.
If you had to debate someone who self-admittedly doesn't read their own sources, how would you do it? How do you figure there's going to be any sort of In my own case it's a mix of stubbornness, a gluttony for making needlessly elaborate forum posts, and holding out hope against hope that one day I'll get to see the whembly that, in your own words, "will do better and try not to be so lazy."I've always tried to come back and try to do better. Everyone, including YOU, refuses to extend any grace. You just want to grind me down to dust and expect me to simply accept it. Its a shame because you know nothing about me and I'm willing to bet we'd get along fantastically if given the chance. Oh well... I'll check back here after November election. Have a swell day homie.
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Post by whembly on Jul 11, 2024 22:49:38 GMT -5
Ya'll want an echo chamber to avoid having a debate from someone who thinks differently than you do. We have plenty of disagreement and debate. We just don't have any interest in having it with YOU because you have consistently demonstrated your inability and/or unwillingness to engage in good faith. You lie, you ignore anything that proves you wrong, and then you come back later to repeat the same old partisan talking points as if none of the previous debate ever happened. The only difference is that here you don't have dakka's "politeness at all costs" nonsense to hide behind and we can be honest in calling you what you are. Most of the time, ya'll never proved that I lied or that you've proven otherwise contrary to my positions. It's simply a battle of wills to whomever's willing to stick with their opinion, and on this board (as well as Dakka), it's a very center-left to progressive ideological slant. So from my perspective, it's a losing battle to find common ground when the other side simply believes they can't do any wrong. Anyhoo... I've overstayed my welcome here. Ta.
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Post by crispy78 on Jul 12, 2024 0:27:06 GMT -5
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