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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 1:14:15 GMT -5
...oof. that isn't a great one!
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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 1:18:14 GMT -5
I dunno, the right wing in the UK just imploded into infighting, and the US right wing is a constant fight between red and blue couldn't even unite behind a choice for speaker for weeks.
The right wing politicians / parties have imploded, but the right wing voters seem to be just as unified and uninformed. I'm not sure how that works but the cynic in me thinks some only have the opinion the Daily Mail gave them that week, and so there's nothing for them to argue with other people who get told the same opinion. Maybe I'm missing some nuance though. I'm very wary of assuming homogeneity. To go with the UK example, clearly there is a divide between traditional Tory voters and newer voters who have largely moved to Reform. They definitely favour different things- the latter group tends to be more supportive of public utilities, for example. Plus, you get oddities like George Galloway- economically left, but mostly socially conservative except on ethnicity and foreign policy. He clearly represents a niche, albeit a small one.
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Post by Peregrine on Jul 12, 2024 1:39:49 GMT -5
Most of the time, ya'll never proved that I lied or that you've proven otherwise contrary to my positions. I proved to you with numbers that your claims about the electoral college favoring small states are false, multiple times, but because that didn't align with the right-wing talking points of the day you refused to accept it. As for your "departure", you'll be back just like you always are. You aren't fooling anyone.
Oh FFS. I'm just praying the "anyone but Trump" factor is enough. The timing on Biden starting to lose his mind could not possibly have been worse.
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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 2:31:29 GMT -5
It seems like the Democrats really need a different reason to retire Biden to save face at this point. Like an unrelated health condition hits him and he steps aside for Harris. None of this is ideal but his cognitive state is only going to become a bigger liability going forward.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Jul 12, 2024 5:34:22 GMT -5
If you had to debate someone who self-admittedly doesn't read their own sources, how would you do it? How do you figure there's going to be any sort of In my own case it's a mix of stubbornness, a gluttony for making needlessly elaborate forum posts, and holding out hope against hope that one day I'll get to see the whembly that, in your own words, "will do better and try not to be so lazy."I've always tried to come back and try to do better. Everyone, including YOU, refuses to extend any grace. You just want to grind me down to dust and expect me to simply accept it. And thus you skip over the whole crux of the issue and refuse to engage with the main point, which is that no one can trust you because you've demonstrably lied in the past. Even if we discount all the times were you don't agree that you did the fact that you can't deny that there were instances where you lied is the entire problem. Why would you expect any grace to be extended to someone who can't even deny that they've lied? You're right that I want to grind you down to dust in this instance and for you to accept it because the only way for you to being clawing some semblance of credibility back is to not only admit you lied, which you have, but to actually change your behaviour, which you haven't. The alternative is that I just start calling you despic or whatever other nickname du jour you prefer and do what the rest of the forum already does because they're tired of you after more than a decade of your posts not changing.
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Post by pacific on Jul 12, 2024 5:42:28 GMT -5
...oof. that isn't a great one! It is now turning into the cruellest of black comedies. I saw that Zelensky laughed it off, but really there could not have been a worse gaff. Saw one joke Kamala Harris: We did it Joe! Joe Biden: Thank you Slobodan Milosevic I have read the Dems are testing the waters re. the popularity of Harris, but really if Biden doesn't want to step down what option does that leave them? Read a darkly poignant comment that this is reminding everyone in middle age what they are going to be dealing with when trying to get their parents to do anything in 20 years.
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Post by Peregrine on Jul 12, 2024 5:51:08 GMT -5
I have read the Dems are testing the waters re. the popularity of Harris, but really if Biden doesn't want to step down what option does that leave them? There isn't really an option. Unless Biden's issues get much worse the backlash and loss of finances from replacing him by authority of party leadership and not by vote would be worse than keeping him and hoping to minimize the damage. People can try to convince him to change his mind but if he's set on not dropping out then that's pretty much the end of the discussion.
(And replacing him as president is impossible, at most he could be unable to run as a democrat in the upcoming election.)
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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 6:00:15 GMT -5
Yeah, Harris is the only credible alternative (as the funding is also available to her as running mate), but Biden has to step aside for her to become the main candidate.
Seeing as Biden has gotten this far, I don't think any degree of further cognitive decline would encourage him to step aside. I think it would have to be a separate health condition striking him to induce this change in direction.
So chances are Biden will be the nominee. But he is over 80, so who knows. He is well within the possibility of having a stroke or heart attack and dropping out from that.
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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 6:02:53 GMT -5
It does seem crazy that you can theoretically have a president who legally couldn't make decisions about their healthcare or will, but is in charge of the executive branch. But the US does seem to have really weird views on capacity and consent though.
Plus we have precedent in Ronald Reagan...
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 435
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Post by skyth on Jul 12, 2024 6:06:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure this is a sign of cognitive decline. This is something that I've done (Called something by the wrong name) just because my mind is a couple steps ahead of what I'm speaking about currently.
And I find it telling that the ones that are braying the loudest about this (IE FOX and 'friends') ignore all the times that Trump has done the exact same thing or worse.
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 435
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Post by skyth on Jul 12, 2024 6:07:28 GMT -5
I've always tried to come back and try to do better. Everyone, including YOU, refuses to extend any grace. You just want to grind me down to dust and expect me to simply accept it. And thus you skip over the whole crux of the issue and refuse to engage with the main point, which is that no one can trust you because you've demonstrably lied in the past. Even if we discount all the times were you don't agree that you did the fact that you can't deny that there were instances where you lied is the entire problem. Why would you expect any grace to be extended to someone who can't even deny that they've lied? You're right that I want to grind you down to dust in this instance and for you to accept it because the only way for you to being clawing some semblance of credibility back is to not only admit you lied, which you have, but to actually change your behaviour, which you haven't. The alternative is that I just start calling you despic or whatever other nickname du jour you prefer and do what the rest of the forum already does because they're tired of you after more than a decade of your posts not changing. It's just gaslighting at this point. Who cares that we've all seen it over the years.
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nfe
OT Cowboy
Posts: 204
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Post by nfe on Jul 12, 2024 6:09:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure this is a sign of cognitive decline. This is something that I've done (Called something by the wrong name) just because my mind is a couple steps ahead of what I'm speaking about currently. And I find it telling that the ones that are braying the loudest about this (IE FOX and 'friends') ignore all the times that Trump has done the exact same thing or worse. You would hope for folks to hold politicians to a higher standard than Fox hold Trump, though.
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 435
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Post by skyth on Jul 12, 2024 6:28:32 GMT -5
I still say, calling things by the wrong name is not a sign of cognitive decline. Like I said, I've done it multiple times and I'm pretty sharp and quick witted in general. If I had a dollar for every time I've called one of my 'kids' by their sibling's name, I'd have quite a bit there Really have to look at if they confusing ideas, which I haven't seen Biden do but I have seen Trump do.
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nfe
OT Cowboy
Posts: 204
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Post by nfe on Jul 12, 2024 6:42:31 GMT -5
I still say, calling things by the wrong name is not a sign of cognitive decline. Like I said, I've done it multiple times and I'm pretty sharp and quick witted in general. If I had a dollar for every time I've called one of my 'kids' by their sibling's name, I'd have quite a bit there Really have to look at if they confusing ideas, which I haven't seen Biden do but I have seen Trump do. Sure. We all do it now and again. In isolation those types of errors, whilst embarrassing, aren't a reason to worry about someone's faculties...
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Post by Haighus on Jul 12, 2024 7:01:06 GMT -5
Biden was confusing ideas a lot in the now-infamous debate. He really meandered off on a lot of points.
The thing about cognitive decline is its rarely a straight decline. People have good days and bad days. Biden is clearly having bad days. These are also more likely to occur when he is outside his usual environment... such as on diplomatic trips or attending debates.
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