|
Post by bobtheinquisitor on Oct 16, 2023 0:58:40 GMT -5
I thought Grey Immanence was a name only used on ETC.
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Oct 16, 2023 1:23:12 GMT -5
I don't think so, I could be misremembering their exact name but they were definitely in the dakka politics threads. They're not Grey Templar, I don't think they ever went to ETC.
|
|
|
Post by A Town Called Malus on Oct 16, 2023 7:34:23 GMT -5
Also, a key thing that Bob identified was him and his wife turning off the radicalization spigot. Without that, there is nothing a forum could do as the person just keeps getting their position reinforced no matter how many times others try and talk them out of it online.
It's why the Republican base in the USA still has a majority that believe that Trump won the 2020 election, despite how many times, in how many different forums and venues, that lie has been thoroughly dismantled. Because they haven't stopped watching Fox, OANN, Breitbart or whatever who don't outright admit that fact, or do but then the next segment is back onto unsubstantiated claims of vote machine tampering etc.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 640
|
Post by herzlos on Oct 17, 2023 3:18:38 GMT -5
Bingo. I used to always think that patiently correcting a bigot and highlighting that they are welcome here if they behave will ultimately lead to them having a realization that they are wrong, but it seems that most people just keep doubling down and the more you correct them the more you push them into the supporting arms of other bigots because "those lefties are all so horrible and unreasonable". That seems to largely be how radicalization of youths works.
In the same vane, I'm not sure outright banning them helps, because then the same thing will happen - the only places they can exist are those that support bigots, and without some awareness that non-bigots exist they'll just get worse in their bubble.
Of course the latter isn't a problem for the bigot free spaces as such, and they are tedious.
I certainly doubt someone like grog is going to be transformed by a space like this, other than getting pushed further right like happened to Tides. I've no idea what the best way to proceed is.
(What's RP?)
|
|
Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 858
|
Post by Haighus on Oct 17, 2023 3:54:18 GMT -5
RP is RepublicanPsycho.
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Oct 17, 2023 7:41:15 GMT -5
If not answering his posts is part of the answer, why do you guys keep reacting to his posts then? "You guys"? I answered once because I'm weak and I was goaded into it. That's what trolls do. How do you know he's trolling for attention and not just posting his opinion? Do you think he doesn't actually hold the views he's posting and just trying to rile people up? False dichotomy man. He can absolutely troll have say things he believes. In fact it's likely a negative feedback loop where the more he tries to tell, the me he ends up believed the awful things he says, the worst his trolling is. Trolling isn't when you say things you don't believe, it's when you purposefully try to rile people up.
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Oct 17, 2023 7:43:34 GMT -5
You clearly have no idea how much impact an act of kindness by the right person at the right time can have on somebody, since you seem bizarrely incapable of being kind to others (or at least, completely unwilling). You are not the right person at the right time, and more importantly you are not actually showing him any kindness.
|
|
herzlos
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 640
|
Post by herzlos on Oct 17, 2023 10:01:42 GMT -5
Not "someone". Grog. He is trolling for attention, and the more you react to him, the more validation you give him, the more he is likely to continue trolling with ever more offensive statements. The correct answer is to ban him silently, remove all traces and not answer any of his posts. If not answering his posts is part of the answer, why do you guys keep reacting to his posts then? I always felt it was important to correct the false statements - albeit not for Grog himself since he doesn't care - but for anyone else who is reading it. If he posts bigoted lies without anyone calling him on it then it almost looks like tacit approval. Though I do also acknowledge that feeding the trolls is almost always the wrong thing to do. It's hard to just leave someone to be wrong on the internet.
|
|
skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 324
|
Post by skyth on Oct 17, 2023 10:07:36 GMT -5
Gish Gallop...
|
|
|
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Oct 18, 2023 12:23:07 GMT -5
I always felt it was important to correct the false statements - albeit not for Grog himself since he doesn't care - but for anyone else who is reading it. First, remove them. Second, you can write a text explaining how things actually are, without repeating the original claim. But that's optional.
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Oct 18, 2023 17:32:02 GMT -5
You clearly have no idea how much impact an act of kindness by the right person at the right time can have on somebody, since you seem bizarrely incapable of being kind to others (or at least, completely unwilling). You are not the right person at the right time, and more importantly you are not actually showing him any kindness. You don't know that.
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Oct 18, 2023 17:51:33 GMT -5
I think you're trying to force the definition of bullying onto that thread is pretty heavyhanded. Whembly had declared he'd gladly confront and take on anyone who could provide examples of his bad faith. I did so back when I thought he could, you know, be talked to like a normal rational person. Like you'd suggest we all do. His response was about two or three posts insisting he's never engaged in bad faith, then editing all his posts with a meme. I don't think it's bullying anymore than asking for people like grog to be banned in order to deny them a platform to spread their hate. It's not heavyhanded at all. You are one of the quickest here to be straight up disrespectful to others, often without cause, and you'll repeatedly badger and accuse others of bad faith if they don't respond within a timeline that's to your liking. You consistently assume the worse and go straight for the throat regardless the topic or your level of familiarity with it. You insult others even if they've given you no cause or shown you no disrespect. Back when you thought Whembly could be talked to like a normal rational person, he challenged anyone to provide examples, and your response was to create a megathread of his posts to dunk on him. How do you really expect someone to respond to something like that in a fruitful manner? It's incredibly antagonistic and is not a reasonable basis for beginning (or restarting) a discussion by any metric.
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Oct 18, 2023 17:53:16 GMT -5
You are not the right person at the right time, and more importantly you are not actually showing him any kindness. You don't know that. We definitely know that based on their behavior of constantly making new accounts to continue being bigoted trolls. But putting that aside, your "act of kindness" being "please stop being bigoted" isn't really an act of kindness, nor is it going to convince them of jackshit, and especially not rethinking their biases. You're deluding yourself if you think it is. He probably just needs an act of kindness to make him rethink his positions. Simply asking him to not be bigoted should do it... That's probably about as realistic as asking you to stop being a bully. I mean... that's literally what you have been doing though.
|
|
|
Post by Hordini on Oct 18, 2023 17:55:37 GMT -5
We definitely know that based on their behavior of constantly making new accounts to continue being bigoted trolls. But putting that aside, your "act of kindness" being "please stop being bigoted" isn't really an act of kindness, nor is it going to convince them of jackshit, and especially not rethinking their biases. You're deluding yourself if you think it is. That's probably about as realistic as asking you to stop being a bully. I mean... that's literally what you have been doing though. You're right. And you still can't seem to manage it, can you? Are you incapable, unwilling, or both?
|
|
|
Post by Emblematic Wolfblade on Oct 18, 2023 17:56:35 GMT -5
We definitely know that based on their behavior of constantly making new accounts to continue being bigoted trolls. But putting that aside, your "act of kindness" being "please stop being bigoted" isn't really an act of kindness, nor is it going to convince them of jackshit, and especially not rethinking their biases. You're deluding yourself if you think it is. I mean... that's literally what you have been doing though. You're right. And you still can't figure out how to do it, can you? Are you incapable, unwilling, or both? I think you missed my point.
|
|