Gun Control (becasue it gets buried in other politics)

[Hordini]

May 7, 2023 18:05:35 GMT -5 skyth said:

Sorry, but 'Good guy with a gun' is referring to just civilians. It's a bit dishonest to try to say it's something else just because it fits the narrative in this case. It's always used in reference to armed civilians due to the 2A.

It is used in reference to armed civilians due to the 2A. It's not limited to armed civilians. Nobody reasonable who is saying "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" is actually arguing that only armed civilians can stop active shooters.

[herzlos]

May 7, 2023 18:42:15 GMT -5 Hordini said:

May 7, 2023 18:05:35 GMT -5 skyth said:

Sorry, but 'Good guy with a gun' is referring to just civilians. It's a bit dishonest to try to say it's something else just because it fits the narrative in this case. It's always used in reference to armed civilians due to the 2A.

It is used in reference to armed civilians due to the 2A. It's not limited to armed civilians. Nobody reasonable who is saying "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" is actually arguing that only armed civilians can stop active shooters.

Why is it almost always used in conjunction with trying to arm civilians, then?

[easye]

I think this quote from the Texas story is pretty telling.....

The eruption of gunfire left some weekend shoppers trapped in the mall as the attack unfolded, including Collin Palakiko, who told KERA's Katherine Hobbs that he sheltered in a store during the shooting.

"We all just kind of knew what to do, because this happens so often," Palakiko said.

www.npr.org/2023/05/07/1174652924/allen-texas-shooting


Also of interest related to violence in Texas, that same weekend someone drove a truck into a bus stop of immigrant workers and killed several of them.  

8 people killed after vehicle drives into group at bus stop in Texas border city

www.npr.org/2023/05/07/1174659261/7-people-were-killed-after-a-vehicle-drove-into-a-bus-stop-in-a-texas-border-cit

Police in Brownsville, Texas say at least eight people are dead and nine others are injured after an SUV struck a group of people waiting for a bus in the border community. The driver is in custody.



The crash occurred at about 8:30 a.m. on Sunday at a bus stop near the Ozanam Center, a shelter for migrants, Brownsville Police investigator Lt. Martin Sandoval said in a video posted to the department's Facebook page.

Not gun related, but there you go.  We all know that driving into people is the second most popular way to randomly kill people now-a-days.  Bombs are too complicated. 

[Disciple of Fate]

Here (likely) is the classic "people kill people" talking point deflection presenting itself, conveniently ignoring that this doesn't happen almost every other day in Europe.

[easye]

Nope, not trying to deflect. I actually see the two incidents as related.

The shooter has been linked to hate groups, the second had immigrants as the target.

My point is more that the "Civil War" has started, and will continue to manifest itself in these types of attacks. Yet, many Americans will just pretend that this is normal and politics as usual. It is not. We need to do something about guns, domestic terrorism, hate speech, and extremism in the US or this will be what every year looks like for the next two decades and it will spread.

[Disciple of Fate]

Sorry, I didn't mean you did/tried, I meant the deflection point in general for the vocal 2nd ammendment supporters, because they're timed so close together in the same state.

It won't stop untill the casualties start piling up on a specific side, unless it personally affects them, there is no issue for them.

[skyth]

Latest news on the vehicle one is the the driver lost control and is being charged with Manslaughter.

[easye]

Here is the story on that.....

www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/brownsville-texas-car-crash-monday/index.html

The man who drove a vehicle into a group of people near a migrant shelter in Brownsville, Texas, on Sunday, killing eight and injuring 10 more, has been charged with eight counts of manslaughter, Brownsville Police chief Felix Sauceda said Monday.

The driver was identified as George Alvarez, a 34-year-old with an extensive rap sheet, including prior charges of assault and driving while intoxicated, according to police. The vehicle he was driving ran a red light, lost control, flipped on its side and hit a total of 18 people, the chief said. Alvarez then tried to flee the scene before he was detained by bystanders, police said.

He was charged on the manslaughter counts as well as 10 counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, and his bond was set at $3.6 million, the chief said. Police said they are still investigating the cause of the crash.

[easye]

An article about the Texas victims.....

www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/victims-allen-texas-outlet-mall-shooting/index.html

At least 3 were children. Some families had multiple victims but all of the victims left behind loved ones, some of whom were there the day of the shooting.

[adurot]

[easye]

My favorite part about the Molon Labe thing was that Great King Xerxes did come and take them.

Very effectively I might add.

[Disciple of Fate]

How so? Sparta in a coalition with other city-states won the war with Xerxes?

The ironic part is that unlike US society, Spartan society was actually a well regulated militia. Of course the people using those stickers might also want to read up on Spartan dress code and sexuality.

[easye]

Ummm, Molon Labe was spoken at Thermopylae IIRC. That battle is the one where King Leonidas told Xerxes to come and take the Greeks arms from them..... and then Xerxes killed them all and took their arms from them.

Greeks and westerners fetishize the battle, but the Persians don't even mention it. It was a non-event to them as they were the obvious winners of the battle. All the Spartans were killed and the Persian army marched forth.

Eventually, the Persians lost the war, but not the battle where the phrase is taken from. It is a famous last stand and massacre, so I am not sure why you would take that as your inspiration. I guess if you fetishize martyrdom it might make sense.

If you want to talk all about the Greco-Persian Wars we should start another thread, but the key battles were Salamis (Naval) and Platea (Land).

[Disciple of Fate]

That is the problem with the abstract myth. The Greeks lost the battle, but overall the rearguard action allowed the majority to escape and later fight at Platea.

But using the myth shows the typical ignorance. Not like Sparta was any less tyrannical to their slaves, using phrases like that is the writing equivalent of waving the confederate flag around.

[herzlos]

May 9, 2023 12:14:37 GMT -5 adurot said:

Am I the only one not seeing the embedded twitter link, and thus a fairly big bit of context?

I had to change to BBCode to get the URL (https:// twitter com /fyrescotch/status/1655973517630767123)