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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 9, 2024 15:33:33 GMT -5
If a lot of people voted Trump because of an economic crunch it makes sense they'd not spend on going to rallies. There's always going to be unconfirmed rumors of wrongdoing and people who claim this or that, there's not much reason to trust it without actual proof.
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Post by crispy78 on Nov 9, 2024 18:26:28 GMT -5
Given that Trump was literally saying before the election "we've got it fixed, just vote for us this once and you'll never have to vote again" you'd really hope someone was at least vaguely looking to make sure there were no shenanigans going on...
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Post by steelmage99 on Nov 10, 2024 0:07:00 GMT -5
I am VERY reluctant to entertain thoughts of Republican rigging.
There isn't much proof of such rigging.
So unless somebody finds stacks of hidden votes for Harris hidden somewhere, I don't really see it....
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Post by Peregrine on Nov 10, 2024 2:12:28 GMT -5
I am VERY reluctant to entertain thoughts of Republican rigging. There isn't much proof of such rigging. So unless somebody finds stacks of hidden votes for Harris hidden somewhere, I don't really see it.... The most credible suggestion I've seen so far, besides how surprising the margin of victory was, is the weird lack of coattails on the down-ballot stuff. Look at the Arizona senate race where a prominent Trump loyalist defined by her fanatical endorsement of every pro-Trump conspiracy theory is currently behind by a small margin (counting isn't finished yet) in a state where Trump won by a significant margin. Even if she wins in the final count it's going to be by a very small margin, so who are these people who voted against the rabidly pro-Trump candidate but for Trump himself? There's a similar thing in NC where yeah, you can explain away the "black Nazi" candidate for governor losing but the democrats also won the other statewide races while Trump won by a solid margin. And looking at the vote numbers there are IIRC something like 300,000 NC voters that cast a ballot for Trump but no other candidate. It's just not what you'd expect to see from a party that won by solid margins in every key state and managed to win the popular vote by a significant margin, a feat republicans haven't managed in quite a while. If republicans were so enthusiastic and democrats so apathetic and/or converted to republicans then why didn't it show up outside of the presidential race?
Now, obviously that's all extremely speculative and nowhere near proof but I would not be shocked if someone did find the proof. And I really hope people with more experience and access than me are taking it seriously and investigating even if the only conclusion ends up being that yep, the US really is just that racist and misogynist.
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Post by herzlos on Nov 10, 2024 9:14:23 GMT -5
Some of the statistics seem to be really odd. Like states where a Democrat won the Senate but Trump won the Presidency, and unusually large numbers of people who voted for Trump but left the rest of the ballot blank. I'd have expected people to vote Republican for all question, but is it just people taking "Vote Trump" literally, not caring about the other Republicans, or just not knowing there were other questions on the ballot? Nevada also seems odd, where a high percentage of registered voters didn't despite all of the easy voting options, and some lowish population lefty areas were big Trump wins. Maybe it's not enough to matter, but it looks fishy. Thinking about it, there's no reason for Trump not to have cheated - if he won he becomes immune to all the legal cases, if he gets caught then what's another dozen felony counts? It's also really suspicious how quiet he's been. It's as if his handlers have taken away his phone; I'd have expected him to be gloating HARD.
But she's a competent prosecutor, so she's presumably going to stay quiet until she's got enough evidence to deal with it. Not holding my breath though.
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Post by herzlos on Nov 10, 2024 9:15:19 GMT -5
Also, apparently Vance is threatening to pull the USA out of NATO if the EU doesn't stop trying to regular Twitter. That's hardly unsurprisingly but that'll be a total mess. I'm surprised NATO still relies on USA at all after last Trump Presidency.
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Post by semipotentwalrus on Nov 10, 2024 9:47:26 GMT -5
Getting armaments industries up and running again takes time.
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Post by steelmage99 on Nov 10, 2024 16:17:31 GMT -5
The most credible suggestion I've seen so far, besides how surprising the margin of victory was, is the weird lack of coattails on the down-ballot stuff. Look at the Arizona senate race where a prominent Trump loyalist defined by her fanatical endorsement of every pro-Trump conspiracy theory is currently behind by a small margin (counting isn't finished yet) in a state where Trump won by a significant margin. Even if she wins in the final count it's going to be by a very small margin, so who are these people who voted against the rabidly pro-Trump candidate but for Trump himself? There's a similar thing in NC where yeah, you can explain away the "black Nazi" candidate for governor losing but the democrats also won the other statewide races while Trump won by a solid margin. And looking at the vote numbers there are IIRC something like 300,000 NC voters that cast a ballot for Trump but no other candidate. It's just not what you'd expect to see from a party that won by solid margins in every key state and managed to win the popular vote by a significant margin, a feat republicans haven't managed in quite a while. If republicans were so enthusiastic and democrats so apathetic and/or converted to republicans then why didn't it show up outside of the presidential race?
Now, obviously that's all extremely speculative and nowhere near proof but I would not be shocked if someone did find the proof. And I really hope people with more experience and access than me are taking it seriously and investigating even if the only conclusion ends up being that yep, the US really is just that racist and misogynist.
Oh, I agree that the down-ballot votes seem odd in some places. Also various issues that was voted on seems to favor Democrats somewhat, even in states that Trump was expected to win and did. |
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Post by normalperson on Nov 10, 2024 16:41:46 GMT -5
I think it's usually the case that in hard times, the incumbent gets voted out regardless of the why. If people aren't doing well, they vote for the other guy for change. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
I'm seeing a lot of chatter on social media about ballots not being counted or just missing. Nothing in a huge scale, a few thousand didn't make it from a machine to a counter after a USB stick was misplaced, boxes of unopened ballots falling off trucks, and a lot of people who voted being able to check on line and having them not registered or counted somehow. Shouldn't that all be wrapped up by now? That, coupled with some suspicious statements from Trump (his little secret plan, how he flipped from claiming it was already rigged to being sure it wasn't rigged) and the huge margins he took swing states by out of nowhere, some people are thinking something funny is going on but can't prove anything yet. Is that just the denial stage of grief happening or do we think there's anything behind it? Personally, I'm struggling to marry up the footage of quiet Trump rallies and seemingly apathy with the huge swing towards Trump, but I'm not sure if that's a bubble thing or not. I don't see much pro-Trump stuff despite looking, but apparently if you start a fresh social media account you get a lot of right wing stuff pretty quickly. I'm also struggling to believe that that much of the voting population is that angry/stupid/gullible, but I could be wrong. I can help with this. You are in a bubble. Everyone around here was willing to crawl over broken glass to vote the current admin out. Trump rallies were big as usual. I'm inundated with Pro-Trump stuff. So yeah, you're in a bubble. I am too probably, which is why I occasionally lurk here, to see what the exact opposite view of the world looks like. But there's no lack of enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters, you're just not being exposed to it. |
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mdgv2
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 916
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 10, 2024 16:49:28 GMT -5
See, whilst I can see (but never agree) with the appeal of his policies?
I just don’t get why anyone would trust Trump to deliver. He didn’t last time. At all. He’s a proven philanderer, proven liar, and just utterly uninterested in doing anything except enriching himself.
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skyth
OT Cowboy
Posts: 487
Member is Online
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Post by skyth on Nov 10, 2024 17:01:42 GMT -5
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mdgv2
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 916
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 10, 2024 17:31:51 GMT -5
That’s certainly a strong possibility.
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Post by Peregrine on Nov 10, 2024 18:30:59 GMT -5
Trump rallies were big as usual. We have video and photo evidence that they weren't. Nobody is questioning that Trump's most passionate supporters still loved him, the question is why is it so inconsistent? Why did all these enthusiastic Trump supporters vote for democrats in other races, including voting against a candidate who was a fanatical Trump loyalist? See, whilst I can see (but never agree) with the appeal of his policies? I just don’t get why anyone would trust Trump to deliver. He didn’t last time. At all. He’s a proven philanderer, proven liar, and just utterly uninterested in doing anything except enriching himself. Ignorance. They live in a bubble where Trump did deliver, and he only failed to deliver because the evil demoncrats stole his election and illegally obstructed everything he wanted to do. It's what happens with every cult, the cult leader maintains a devoted following no matter how much the facts would say they shouldn't. Being in the cult is just that powerful at warping perceptions and finding excuses. Relevant statistics:  |
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Post by normalperson on Nov 10, 2024 19:07:23 GMT -5
skyth, for some reason that shows as a broken link for me. Peregrine, it could be ignorance. But the reality is that the progressive views on these issues are political losers with the public. That doesn't mean you should change your strongly held view (for instance, the right will hold its view on abortion despite it being the biggest loser below, because of the view on morality). But it should at least change your strategy:  jabberwocking.com/raw-data-what-the-american-public-thinks-of-culture-war-issues/And the question was how could this be the election result, right or wrong. And it is pretty clear why, and was visible a long way off, outside of the opposite leaning bubbles. |
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Post by normalperson on Nov 10, 2024 19:22:43 GMT -5
See, whilst I can see (but never agree) with the appeal of his policies? I just don’t get why anyone would trust Trump to deliver. He didn’t last time. At all. He’s a proven philanderer, proven liar, and just utterly uninterested in doing anything except enriching himself. Missed this one, and yeah not arguing in favor of the orange man. But his win being big was pretty apparent here was what I wanted to say. Polymarket was particularly interesting to watch as the odds were very much higher for him, and seemingly more accurate than the polls. |
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