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Post by herzlos on Nov 11, 2024 5:29:22 GMT -5
The problem with being too 'cocky' or 'elitist' is that you either have to count on voters to actually educate themselves and have them listen to people with more expertise, or go hardcore into just lying to counter the lies of the opposing side. Given that 50%+ of voters think Trump would do better on the economy, when all the experts are pulling their hair out over his concepts of policy plans about tariffs (or mass deportation), should be a good indication about the viability of the first option. Better policy doesn't simply beat lies, unless that is packaged in a charismatic ( you know, a straight man) candidate.
I'm not sure it's possible to counter a charismatic liar with populist claims; what he says sounds great, if you believe he'll actually do it and knows what he's talking about. Brexit was the same; the claims were amazing but the slightest bit of critical thought showed them to be impossible.
In the longer term, you can work on education, reading comprehension and critical thinking. Though how you do that with book banning and defunding schools for any kind of liberal agenda I don't know.
I find it hard to relate where the US is 37th in literacy with 21% being illiterate: |
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mdgv2
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 11, 2024 5:37:52 GMT -5
Simple (often blame assigning) answers to complex questions.
Let’s consider undocumented migrants (to separate out from Asylum Seekers).
The right wing is focussed purely on “they are all criminal. Took Ur Juurrrrrrrrb”. And sure, I think we have to accept that a proportion of undocumented migrants will be criminals. What percentage? I’d need to look into reports and statistics and that.
But many won’t be. Many will be desperate people in search of a safer life for them and their descendants (like, I dunno, the pilgrim fathers…). So what’s the problem with them? Exploitation. Exploited by employers, exploited by landlords, exploited by criminals (and not just fellow undocumented migrants).
So, there is a problem there, and a multi-faceted one. And the further right you go the more they try to hide themselves, so you end up with no idea how many there are, where they are, whether they’re being exploited etc.
“I are deport” is hardly a fucking answer, on account….how do you first identify them? How do you get them to come forward? Are they aware of whatever legal rights exist (such as potentially claiming asylum, getting documented and getting safer).
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Post by crispy78 on Nov 11, 2024 5:48:10 GMT -5
What I'm afraid of is it'll end up with gangs of state-sanctioned thugs dragging suspiciously-brown people off the streets.
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mdgv2
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 11, 2024 5:50:10 GMT -5
It’s almost like a Cult, especially if the undocumented migrant doesn’t speak English/Spanish, and came from a highly oppressive country.
They may genuinely believe that if they hand themselves in to authorities, the Police will kill them or whatever other horrors those who got them here in the first place claim.
The UK has a well documented issue with small boats crossing the channel. The right wing press is in constant five knuckle shuffle mode over it. And nobody seems to be offering sensible solutions.
For instance, and international processing* centre on the continent could help reduce those making that crossing. Go there, have your claim processed, and if successful over you come to the UK. Rinse and repeat and the cashflow of the utter, utter, utter cunts charging thousands to stuff people into flimsy boats without giving a fuck if you actually make it will begin to be interrupted.
If there’s a safe, legal method? Anyone risking the boats and people smuggling routes probably are criminals, as anyone with a genuine claim and desire for a better life has less reason to go that route. Note the operative words probably and less. Some folk are just desperate and misinformed.
*the word seems grotesque in this context
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Nov 11, 2024 5:54:57 GMT -5
The problem with being too 'cocky' or 'elitist' is that you either have to count on voters to actually educate themselves and have them listen to people with more expertise, or go hardcore into just lying to counter the lies of the opposing side. Given that 50%+ of voters think Trump would do better on the economy, when all the experts are pulling their hair out over his concepts of policy plans about tariffs (or mass deportation), should be a good indication about the viability of the first option. Better policy doesn't simply beat lies, unless that is packaged in a charismatic ( you know, a straight man) candidate.
I'm not sure it's possible to counter a charismatic liar with populist claims; what he says sounds great, if you believe he'll actually do it and knows what he's talking about. Brexit was the same; the claims were amazing but the slightest bit of critical thought showed them to be impossible.
In the longer term, you can work on education, reading comprehension and critical thinking. Though how you do that with book banning and defunding schools for any kind of liberal agenda I don't know.
I find it hard to relate where the US is 37th in literacy with 21% being illiterate: It sort of worked for Biden and Obama would probably win if he could run. Of course they weren't perfectly honest angels either, but they were at a entirely different level to Trump. Funding education (and tackling SM and algorithms) would probably help, if not for support for education being violently lurched back and forth whenever an election switches those in power. It's a vicious downward circle that you don't fix by being in power for a few years. |
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Post by Peregrine on Nov 11, 2024 7:14:15 GMT -5
In the longer term, you can work on education, reading comprehension and critical thinking. Though how you do that with book banning and defunding schools for any kind of liberal agenda I don't know. To be fair, they don't just want to defend schools that have a liberal agenda. They want to defend all schools except for the private schools they send their own kids to. The end goal is to stop teaching things like reading comprehension and critical thinking, turn public schools into job training centers that give just enough education to work a menial job, and have an ignorant and easily manipulated population that will fall for all of the lies. |
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Post by herzlos on Nov 11, 2024 7:44:24 GMT -5
True, though I'm sure there was a further push to punish schools teaching sex ed and critical race theory. Evolution is probably next.
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Post by adurot on Nov 11, 2024 10:26:02 GMT -5
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Post by bobtheinquisitor on Nov 11, 2024 10:52:42 GMT -5
So, TikTok then.
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Post by Disciple of Fate on Nov 11, 2024 11:30:28 GMT -5
As low-information as some as them are, you got to love the one calling a man caking himself with a bag of bronzer and getting his comb over just right every day "real".
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Post by herzlos on Nov 12, 2024 5:27:01 GMT -5
As low-information as some as them are, you got to love the one calling a man caking himself with a bag of bronzer and getting his comb over just right every day "real".
Some people see that as glamorous/successful I guess. Fake tan etc is pretty popular amongst some groups, and with celebrities becoming barely human using plastic surgery to fight aging he doesn't entirely stand out in that regard.
As a politician, it's unheard of, but for a celebrity it's pretty normal.
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Post by herzlos on Nov 12, 2024 5:30:20 GMT -5
Going by all the accounts I'm seeing of people being disappointed in family members or partners voting for Trump, including long time Democrats or illegals who were given amnesty by Regan in 1987, I'm actually convinced that he got a lot more votes than expected. I'm positive he cheated anyway, because he seems to have cheated at literally everything else, but I'm not convinced he wouldn't have won anyway.
The marketing campaign and fearmongering really seems to have worked though.
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mdgv2
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 12, 2024 5:35:03 GMT -5
Part of me wonders if it’s just an attempt to make him go away, by getting his second and presumably final term done.
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Post by herzlos on Nov 12, 2024 6:03:37 GMT -5
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mdgv2
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Post by mdgv2 on Nov 12, 2024 6:50:48 GMT -5
Nobody said humans were particularly sane.
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