The War on Trans Folks

[Disciple of Fate]

Mar 14, 2024 10:35:41 GMT -5 skyth said:

Yeah, spilling water on someone is 'starting the fight'. Sorry, but physical violence in response to that is not warranted...

Typical school logic, "you defended yourself after years of bullying? Clearly both parties are equally guilty here."

[carlo87]

Mar 14, 2024 10:35:41 GMT -5 skyth said:

Yeah, spilling water on someone is 'starting the fight'. Sorry, but physical violence in response to that is not warranted...

Idk, if I dump a couple cups of water over someone's head I'm kind of expecting a bit of instant retaliation. And let's be honest, this wasn't some kind of beat down, it was a minor scuffle.

[bobtheinquisitor]

If the cause of death was self-inflicted rather than a result of the fight, then the fight itself need not be more than a scuffle to feel like the last straw if it followed years of bullying.

[Disciple of Fate]

I would say you don't go to the hospital for a "minor scuffle". As someone who was heavily (physically) bullied in elementary school, feeling like you need to visit the hospital sure isn't minor in my opinion.

[carlo87]

Mar 15, 2024 0:46:03 GMT -5 Disciple of Fate said:

I would say you don't go to the hospital for a "minor scuffle". As someone who was heavily (physically) bullied in elementary school, feeling like you need to visit the hospital sure isn't minor in my opinion.

And the hospital found nothing, so yes, minor scuffle. It was a couple of 14-15 year old unarmed girls and lasted like 20 seconds. How much damage can they do, especially when they weren't the aggressors? 

[skyth]

Considering that Nex blacked out from the attack and it lasted minutes...They could have done damage. And they were the aggressors with the bullying. You can't insult and belittle someone and not expect them to throw a drink in your face...

[Haighus]

Source: apnews.com/article/nonbinary-student-death-nex-owasso-oklahoma-1e07834d6aad2475a8f744974d66e765

Benedict’s family reviewed the complete autopsy report and said it documented numerous areas of physical trauma that evidence the severity of the assault, in a statement released through their attorney. They did not dispute the coroner’s report finding of a suicide.

“Rather than allow incomplete accounts to take hold and spread any further, the Benedicts feel compelled to provide a summary of those findings which have not yet been released by the Medical Examiner’s office, particularly those that contradict allegations of the assault on Nex being insignificant,” the statement said.

The findings shared by the family from the complete autopsy report also showed contusions and lacerations to the teen’s face and head, injuries to the back of the left hand and abrasions to the chest that the coroner said are consistent with efforts to administer CPR.

In video footage from the hospital the day of the altercation, Feb. 7, Benedict explains to an officer that three girls had been picking on them and their friends because of the way they dressed. Benedict, who used they/them pronouns, claims that in the bathroom the students said “something like: why do they laugh like that,” referring to Benedict and their friends.

“And so I went up there and I poured water on them, and then all three of them came at me,” Benedict tells the officer from a hospital bed.

“They came at me. They grabbed on my hair. I grabbed onto them. I threw one of them into a paper towel dispenser and then they got my legs out from under me and got me on the ground,” Benedict says in the video, adding that the girls then started beating Benedict and they blacked out.

So... a loss of consciousness accompanied by significant trauma on the autopsy sounds like significant injuries to me. They were not the cause of death but I don't think they should be dismissed.

Also, fluoxetine and antihistamines are not typically dangerous in overdose, it is unusual to have a lethal overdose of those agents. I was surprised to find it was those drugs. I am not familiar with the structure of US cause-of-death documentation but I would not be surprised if they report that the physical injuries contributed to the death by overdose. Having a brain injury (concussion) from trauma would make an individual more vulnerable to dying of an overdose of those medications.

Note I am saying contributory, that doesn't stop it being a suicide, it makes the suicide more likely to be successful. Although it is almost certain the proximate factor for the suicide attempt is the bullying.

[Disciple of Fate]

Mar 15, 2024 8:22:04 GMT -5 carlo87 said:

Mar 15, 2024 0:46:03 GMT -5 Disciple of Fate said:

I would say you don't go to the hospital for a "minor scuffle". As someone who was heavily (physically) bullied in elementary school, feeling like you need to visit the hospital sure isn't minor in my opinion.

And the hospital found nothing, so yes, minor scuffle. It was a couple of 14-15 year old unarmed girls and lasted like 20 seconds. How much damage can they do, especially when they weren't the aggressors? 

Did the hospital release a statement saying that, or are you just assuming that because they didn't get admitted?

Also, your idea that 14-15 year old girls couldn't do damage in what you claim are 20 seconds is absurd. The human body is incredibly fragile and humans have died over a lot less, without even going into the fact that this occured in a location often with hard surfaces and other dangers. It doesn't mean someone has to get seriously injured (or even killed), but you only need some bad luck for it to happen.

[Emblematic Wolfblade]

A fall from a standing height (as in, passing out and falling over) could easily seriously injure someone. The ground is typically not soft, and heads are not exactly armored or great against blunt force.

There's a damn good reason you're told to protect your head during basically any attack or emergency (i.e. an earthquake), and even a basic knowledge of medicine/biology would clue anyone in as to why.

[easye]

Carlos is doing a great job focusing on details while obscuring the fact that this whole thing was encouraged and tacitly approved by the Oklahoma state government itself.

Individuals being anti-Trans is one thing. The state being anti-human rights is another. That is the real issue. Do not let Conservatives bury the lede. Do not fall into their framing.

[skyth]

www.yahoo.com/news/states-laws-targeting-lgbtq-issues-203727875.html

In states with restrictive laws, the number of hate crimes on K-12 campuses has more than quadrupled since the onset of a divisive culture war that has often centered on the rights of LGBTQ+ youth.

[dabbler]

Mar 15, 2024 12:12:58 GMT -5 skyth said:

www.yahoo.com/news/states-laws-targeting-lgbtq-issues-203727875.html

In states with restrictive laws, the number of hate crimes on K-12 campuses has more than quadrupled since the onset of a divisive culture war that has often centered on the rights of LGBTQ+ youth.

Not a shock, that's what these people voted for and wanted to see, with the amount of explanations for why that's the case out there, any attempt at "oh I didn't want that, I just wanted stricter laws about X Y or Z" is nonsense, they know what they voted for and if they keep voting that way they're continuing to support it

[bobtheinquisitor]

Mar 15, 2024 12:12:58 GMT -5 skyth said:

www.yahoo.com/news/states-laws-targeting-lgbtq-issues-203727875.html

In states with restrictive laws, the number of hate crimes on K-12 campuses has more than quadrupled since the onset of a divisive culture war that has often centered on the rights of LGBTQ+ youth.

I think this is the real story, and the main culprit in Nex’s death.

[carlo87]

Mar 15, 2024 8:36:22 GMT -5 skyth said:

Considering that Nex blacked out from the attack and it lasted minutes...They could have done damage. And they were the aggressors with the bullying. You can't insult and belittle someone and not expect them to throw a drink in your face...

Jesus Christ, you really fell for the Mainstream Media misreporting this thing haven't you? The "attack" did NOT last minutes. And if Nex blacked out it was one of the shortest blackouts in history. As I already mentioned the school surveillance system caught ALL of this incident except the actual fight. That fight took place in the woman's restroom and it was 25 seconds from the time Nex walked in, to the time she walked out. How are you getting "minutes with a blackout" out of that?  

[Peregrine]

Caro87, can you clarify what your point here is? Do you think the exact number of seconds changes anything of substance, or is your goal to minimize the impact of the bullying for some reason?