US Election - 2024

[skyth]

From what I heard, he is a Trump supporter that is a Sovern Citizen.

[bobtheinquisitor]

This trend is getting out of hand.

[crispy78]

Er, what?

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/14/trump-military-enemy-within-armed-forces-election-day

"Donald Trump has provoked an angry backlash from Democrats after calling for the US armed forces to be turned against his political adversaries when voters go to the polls at next month’s presidential election.

In comments that added further fuel to fears of an authoritarian crackdown if he recaptures the White House, the Republican nominee said the military or national guard should be deployed against opponents that he called “the enemy within” when the election takes place on 5 November."

[bobtheinquisitor]

Can we compare him to historical fascists yet?

[Peregrine]

Oct 14, 2024 17:50:53 GMT -5 bobtheinquisitor said:

Can we compare him to historical fascists yet?

Don't you remember anything from Dakka? Trump can't be a fascist because he isn't a 1920s Italian politician, these hyperbolic insults add nothing to political discussion.

[Disciple of Fate]

Can't believe we brought up Coachella and didn't mention Trump's genius solution to all those pesky videos showing his supporters leaving rallies early. You just bus them in so they can't leave. Then you can even save money by not bussing them back, the supporters already served their purpose and will still vote for you.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-coachella-rally-stranded-california-desert-b2628775.html

[herzlos]

It's indeed sad to think that the vast majority of the people he left stranded in the desert without food, water, toilets or transport, will all still vote for him. I see they were blaming the Democrats for it immediately, as if there was some elaborate scheme to cancel the bus orders and facilities.

What's also interesting, but a bit concerning, is that most of them seem to have just stood around complaining for over 3 hours. I admittedly wouldn't fancy a 5 mile walk in 90oF heat but I'd have hoped some of them would have quickly figured out how long it'd take to get back to the cars with 1 bus trip every 30 minutes and either tried to make alternative arrangements or for at least some of the people getting back to their cars first making a couple of short trips to ferry people over, people calling in taxis or friends or whatever. But if any of that happened I'd expect to have seen something about it.

Edit: I found this story from an attendee painting a slightly different, albeit totally disorganized, picture: x.com/SivanSpeaks/status/1845972097270776041

Note: The account is a blue-tick and raging MAGA so may be a bit biased.

CHAOS IN COACHELLA: A Firsthand Account
(Not Trump's Fault)
*video is from my phone, did not get the chaos bc I was in the thick of it... but captured moments before things got bad. You can get a sense of the density and confusion of the crowd at the exit*

This is my first person experience of the rough part of the @realdonaldtrump
California Rally Saturday. I’m sharing this because it’s important and there were serious safety issues, but please know the rally, the people, and all the speakers were amazing and inspiring. There were many wonderful, warm stories and a strong sense of patriotic unity.

However, after debating whether to keep this quiet, I’ve decided to share the truth about the disastrous crowd management by the Coachella City Police, Riverside County Sheriff’s Office, and the City of Coachella. The exit at the end of the event was nothing short of horrendous.

First, to set the scene: There was a massive crowd at the venue and people showing up to the shuttles after 1130 a.m. were getting turned away. I had breakfast with several couples at the hotel the next morning who made the trip for the rally but were not able to get in. Inside the rally there were 5 hour waits for food in lines that seemed to extend forever.

The water provided by the campaign in 100 degree weather was all hot, as all the ice had melted or been used. Many people were fainting in the crowd and with cell service down due to the crowd size these people wouldn’t have gotten the help without the immediate assistance and kindness of the MAGA people around them who would yell for help to get the attention of medics. It’s one of the reasons we were all aware of the emergencies. One older man who fell hit his head on the curb while waiting in my line for the shuttle (He was conscious - hope he is okay), another fainted and got treated, and many elderly people at the event itself were struggling, grabbing their hearts and breathing heavily. Everyone did what they could to help them.

Most people who made it in had been standing in line in parking lots, in the heat, since 6 a.m. to gain access to a wide-open field with almost no shade. There were only a couple of shaded tarp spots in the back, nowhere near the stage, and they were crowded and hot. Everyone was also covered in dust from parking in dirt lots and walking through field areas without grass. I’m in good physical shape, but even I was dripping with sweat while sitting on the grass near the main barricade by the stage. (I had expedited passes, but arrived at a.m., and our yellow lot shuttle didn’t drop us at the site until after p.m. The bleachers were already full with those who arrived at or before 6 a.m.) Men who were able to carry the remaining heavy packs of ice from the cooler were kind enough to share. One couple gave us a full ice bag, advising us to take off our shoes and put it over our feet, which literally saved us from overheating. The ice melted in less than an hour.

Despite all this…the very large crowd was in good spirits and supporting each other. Everyone shared stories, and chanted and sang together during the rally. But the exit at night was frightening ….for all of us. It was dangerous.

Thousands of us started heading to the shuttles 5 to 15 minutes before Trump’s speech ended to get to the front of the line. However, there was no line, no organization, no leaders we could see or hear, and it was pitch black. We could feel the desne crowd around us and hear everyone... and couldn't move in any direction. We learned the gates were closed from the crowd that stretched in front of us. My camera captured some of the crowd that I could not see with my eyes extending back as far as I could see. It was hot, dusty, and were were stuck shoulder to shoulder.

After 20 minutes of just standing there, someone fainted and was stuck in the crowd. The people around them started yelling “Need a medic!” and soon the whole crowd of thousands joined the chant, “Need a medic! Need a medic!” so someone would hear. More time passed in the dark and some people started yelling, “What’s going on? Let’s go!” A new chant began, “Open the gates! Open the gates!” We heard noise from a loudspeaker but couldn't make out words. Then the chants turned to, “Let us out! Let us out!”

A couple people by the edge of the fence managed to prop their families over to escape the crowd. I don’t know how the gates opened or if they were forced, but at one point, the crowd surged forward and it was so tight that we were all getting pushed and pulled, apologizing to each other as we bumped into one another while trying to maintain footing—no one wanted to get trampled. It could have been much worse if the crowd didn't keep working together to keep strangers from falling. The men I was with grabbed both my arms to stay connected through the chaos. One hand extended forward to my one friend in front and the other hand extended back to my other friend, to stay connected as we forged through to get to the shuttle buses. I dropped a few things in rush. The buses were labeled green, yellow, or red to match the parking lots we came from. With no order in the crowd and not being able to see the color paper taped to the front of shuttles, people were just yelling their colors and holding up their wrist bands... but were mostly ignored.

The drivers were overwhelmed and some began closing their windows and doors. The filled shuttles were stuck bc they were surrounded by... us. Riot police showed up telling us to move. We said “where?” They didn’t direct us so we just kept moving, and walking…. and walking … and walking … with the crowd passing stalled buses full of people.

Eventually, we found ourselves dispersed on an empty road in the desert. We were relieved to be escape the chaos, but we didn’t know where we were. There were scattered groups of shadowed people in front of us who had already made their way through, and more and more people were breaking free behind us, heading down the same dark desert road. We all kept walking on the empty road for what felt like miles. Everyone was tired, dirty and sweaty after a long day. We shared Kamala jokes and laughed.. supporting each other as we dragged on. Not one MAGA person would walk past a person struggling. We all stopped to check on each other and help, whatever was needed. There were little kids who were exhausted.

We finally got to the last barricade of police. They looked at us perplexed, saying, “Why are you guys here? Go back to the shuttles!” We responded, “You don’t understand! We were getting shoved and the police told us to keep moving and wouldn’t let us get on shuttles.” We asked them to help us. One of the officers shrugged and said “You chose to walk here… you want a ride.. You better walk back!” The MAGA men were like… “nah F that.” So we started gathering on the sides of the roads past the police barricade and trying to get directions on our phones (which got service again) to the lots where our cars were.

The police and shuttles we saw refused to help the groups of people scattered and stranded on the side of desert roads. A local drove by and offered rides for $200. People needed help, and they were trying to take advantage. For many this is when the even longer trek began, but we didn't know this until later. My friends and I were one of the few lucky groups. We got an Uber which was scarce due to three major events that night, a nearly $70 ride to the yellow lot.

An hour and a half after the rally ended we arrived at our lot, which we were shocked to see was still full of empty cars. It turned out we were the first to make it back. We later learned some cars were vandalized. We were looking forward to getting back to the hotel, but as we drove back we saw lines of people struggling on the sides of Hwy 111. That's when we realized how bad it had gotten. They had hours left to walk to the three lots which were 15-20 minutes of a drive from where they were. Some were carrying their shoes and propping themselves up by leaning on their partners shoulders to keep going. Some had just stopped, right there on the highway.

So, my friend and I in separate cars turned around to start picking up as many people as we could. They were so grateful, saying over and over, “God bless you.” As they got out of our car we acknowledged the MAGA spirit of helping each other, gave a little “Go MAGA, Trump 2024!” before they practically collapsed exiting my car.

We only made four trips before we were just too tired to keep driving safely. There was an older black couple I saw struggling as I was driving another couple to the lot, and after the drop off I turned back to get them... but didn't see them. I hope they are okay. I took another older couple who happened to be hispanic and were locals. They could not believe the city handled the exit so poorly. I mention ethnicity only because lies are spread about MAGA being “white”... and the truth is it’s diverse. We were in this mess together from all walks of life united by the MAGA spirit of patriotism, kindness and respect. They are one tough group... I'll tell you that. Trying desperately to "suck it up" as they told each other.

Unbelievably, empty shuttles were driving by and doing nothing! Yes, it’s outrageous. (That is why I'm sharing this) I’m hoping there were others who turned around after they got their cars and started helping because officials, as far as we saw and experienced, did not.

Back at the hotel, those who waited for the shuttle didn’t start walking in until after 10:30 p.m. They said they got to their cars after and most stopped at In-N-Out before getting back.

Many of the Trump supporters who made it out were afraid to complain or even share their stories, afraid the media would spin it against Trump. It wasn't his fault. His team provided the resources for the city; the city had everything they needed to hydrate, cool, and transport the crowd, but the execution was awful. I heard the mayor didn’t want Trump there. I hope that wasn’t why his supporters were abandoned.

Hundreds if not thousands experienced what I did, and most were not as lucky. To the others, I would encourage you to share your story, and if you want to avoid a media spin just tell it yourself. Write it up on social media like I just did, and don't offer a "press interview" that can be clipped. (It took me this long to decide to do it. It's not too late) MAGA supporters on X will share it. I think @realdonaldtrump
would want to know how his supporters were treated by city officials after they braved the heat and lines to support him. If anything it will offer ideas for better planning, for the next city handling a crowd. And if we speak out, city officials and employees who don't like Trump will know that they can't get away with treating us like dirt on the side of the road...without people hearing about it. (Not sure if anyone will read this... I just hope everyone is ok. Please DM or comment if you see this and were there, sharing if you and your loved ones made it out safely. Thank you, and g-d bless the USA and the wonderful MAGA people.) #CoachellaRallyDisaster #LAGOP #TrumpRallyCA

Even before it 'went wrong', there were 5 hour queues for food, essentially no shade and people struggling. Everyone helped everyone else and people were ferrying folk back to the car park where they could.

Apparently none of it being Trumps fault somehow, but maybe Trump had nothing to do with organizing it.

I'm also seeing claims that people were still there at 2am, the food vendors ran out of food because they weren't allowed to bring more in, and that many of the coach drivers refused to return due to safety concerns rather than a contracting issue.
Since the venue license was only for 15,000 people I'm struggling to figure out how they managed to get it that wrong. It's a lot of people but pretty small for an event and any reasonable even organizer should have no issues organizing it.  

I wonder how much of it was down to staff/companies pulling out due to not getting paid. I certainly wouldn't work for a Trump event unless paid up front.

Edit2: Apparently the coaches didn't return because Trumps team refused to pay them, though I've no idea why they'd have even started without money. Shock horror: x.com/joncoopertweets/status/1845887057958183063

[crispy78]

And they want the guy who organised that to run the whole fucking country. I guess I shouldn't expect sense from a bunch of people prepared to take a one-way trip out to the desert to stand in the blazing heat all day and listen to a rambling maniac.

[Disciple of Fate]

Everyone helping ferry people back sounds like socialism /s

More serious, I think the decision not to walk is a bit of a sunk cost fallacy type deal. If you wait an hour, surely transport is right around the corner right? If you wait two hours, what if you just started walking and see transport drive by, can't be too much longer?

The people trying not to blame Trump are laughable. As the guy running this whole campaign, doesn't he carry final responsibility? He literally is running for a job where he has to be that person. Trump supporters say anything that absolves the guy who is, for all intents and purposes, in charge, both during his presidency and on his own campaign.

[Haighus]

That sounds like it was incredibly close to becoming a fatal crush incident. Its scary how quickly such situations can become deadly.

[Haighus]

Oct 15, 2024 4:38:34 GMT -5 Disciple of Fate said:

Everyone helping ferry people back sounds like socialism /s

More serious, I think the decision not to walk is a bit of a sunk cost fallacy type deal. If you wait an hour, surely transport is right around the corner right? If you wait two hours, what if you just started walking and see transport drive by, can't be too much longer?

The people trying not to blame Trump are laughable. As the guy running this whole campaign, doesn't he carry final responsibility? He literally is running for a job where he has to be that person. Trump supporters say anything that absolves the guy who is, for all intents and purposes, in charge, both during his presidency and on his own campaign.

Were the parks 5 miles from the venue? I wouldn't want to do that in such high heat but for anyone reasonably healthy thats a 2 hour walk. Probably better than being stuck in a crowd on the verge of a crush and leaves the shuttles for those who are less physically well.

Why were the parks so far from the venue though?

[Disciple of Fate]

So apparently the venue is private property and the parking areas are the closest big public parking areas. Might not have been feasible to have everyone come directly to the rally with their own vehicle.

[herzlos]

There were apparently 3 official car parks from 2-5 miles away, and part of the requirements for the venue (literally just a field on the each of Coachella) were that people were bussed in. It had no parking capacity so people had to park elsewhere.

But then that's what happens when you cheap out on a venue, or are refused at the proper ones that have actual facilities. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a 15,000 capacity stadium near there.

I was also under the impression this was in the middle of nowhere like the festival, but it's not far off the main road in Coachella and loads of restaurants, country clubs and stuff. It just goes to show how bad US infrastructure is for anything that's not cars. Not that I'd have wanted to walk in that heat, but I think after 10 minutes of there not being a coach I'd have started, there's only like 2 turns to make and it's a straight line to a McDonalds albeit a 40 minute walk away.

[crispy78]

I don't know the area, but given the account above was saying it was pitch dark by that point I'd have thought maybe the temperature would have dropped a bit - but on the other hand that might cause problems for walking along a strange road. I'm also thinking the average MAGA types I see in the media are more or less round so maybe walking a couple of miles isn't in their repertoire...

[semipotentwalrus]

I'm scratching my head a little at the whole "walking for 40 minutes in the dark" bit considering that's Tuesday for me half the year but at the same time I understand that when you're not expecting it (no reflective/hi-vis stuff) and having to walk along a US road as opposed to a Swedish one it's a far more daunting prospect.

Less charitably: oh look, the Cops are being Bastards to you! DO YOU GET IT YET??