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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 5:22:06 GMT -5
Post by pacific on Mar 15, 2023 5:22:06 GMT -5
Hey guys Now it seems ETC is dead and buried thought I would move this thread over here too. Couple of topics to get started Russian jet collides with US Drone over black sea And this ain't a £50 job from the Men's Toys store, a $20 million Reaper drone. Have been reading up on some aircraft blogs threads and there doesn't seem to be any consensus over what happened. Apparently the drone was flying over the black sea off the coast of Crimea when it was 'buzzed' by two Russian SU-27 Flanker aircraft. Apparently the aircraft dumped fuel on the Reaper then at some point there was a collision, which caused the Reaper to be brought down in the sea (and I assume there is now a race on to make sure the aircraft is not recoverable by Russia, as it contains a lot of advanced tech). Read some supposition that one of the Flankers was trying to 'wing-tip' the Reaper and disrupt it and make it crash - this is not unheard of, and has been tried by aircraft going back to WW2 (Spitfires did it to Doodlebug rockets to try and make them crash over unpopulated areas), and the Flanker is a big aircraft, so it's not out of the realms of possiblity. But I don't know, it seems so risky to me, there would be a good chance of the Russians losing a plane and pilot. A big worry for escalation, I suppose we can at least be thankful the aircraft wasn't crewed and so no US Servicemen lost, which definitely would have caused shockwaves. DeSantis comments on Ukraine support I don't think it's possible to overstate what a big blow this is to Ukraine. A withdrawal of major US support will effectively be a death-knell for the country's hopes of fending off Russia. And knowing this we can be sure Russia's Intelligence services, bot farms and everything else they can throw at it are going to doing anything they can to ensure a Republican victory come next year. It might ultimately be that Putin's eventual fate rests on it. I just hope the US's own Intelligence services are prepped and ready to go (or, almost certainly are already heavily involved).
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 5:26:40 GMT -5
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Mar 15, 2023 5:26:40 GMT -5
A big worry for escalation I'm not worried about escalation. Escalation is way worse for Russia than it is for the US. Like, orders of magnitude.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 5:34:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by adurot on Mar 15, 2023 5:34:12 GMT -5
First reports I was hearing indicated the Russian jets dumped fuel on the drone several times before the collision. This morning I’ve seen a report that US officials who watched the footage from the drone don’t think the collision was intentional, and that the Russian pilots were flying like amateurs.
One I saw repeated on a few blogs, nearly word for word, was the drone took off from Italy, and was flying without transponder to Crimea. Russians jammed its flight controls which is what caused it to crash, and they’ve already scooped it or the important bits out of the sea. Admittedly my own biases involved here, but this version reads like propoganda to me.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 5:50:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by adurot on Mar 15, 2023 5:50:04 GMT -5
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 5:53:31 GMT -5
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Mar 15, 2023 5:53:31 GMT -5
Honestly this should call for a strong answer by the US. Blow up some Russian wargear.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 6:04:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by adurot on Mar 15, 2023 6:04:42 GMT -5
Honestly this should call for a strong answer by the US. Blow up some Russian wargear. I’m sure it’s all kinds of impractical, but mayhaps the US followed that specific jet on satellite to where it landed and can take out it specifically with a missile.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 6:13:46 GMT -5
Post by Least censored on the planet! on Mar 15, 2023 6:13:46 GMT -5
I heard the jet collided on the drone and went down...
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Post by adurot on Mar 15, 2023 6:19:07 GMT -5
I heard the jet collided on the drone and went down... Drone went down. Jets returned and safely landed at their base.
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Post by easye on Mar 15, 2023 10:27:40 GMT -5
A specific strike on that jet that destroys it in base, would be a very terrifying signal to Russia. I frankly do not think it can be done.
Onto the Right-wing pivot on Ukraine. This one is surprising to me, as there was a ton of grass roots, right-wing support for Ukraine a year ago when the invasion happened. So much that it probably forced Biden to "do something" to not look soft on the Invasion. Now, that their support is more than just waving a Ukrainian flag around.... they want to back out? These guys really confuse me.
It really feels like the Russians gave the Republican leadership and politicos a lot of money to try to undermine Ukraine aid support, I mean the turnaround started as fringe, and is now going mainstream. I lend credence to this "conspiracy theory" of mine thanks to the Mueller report and the known Russia money flowing into the NRA which then flowed to Republican candidates.
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Post by Peregrine on Mar 15, 2023 11:46:23 GMT -5
The drone thing is a complete non-issue. We've had actual shooting incidents with dead soldiers in the past and it hasn't escalated, there's no way it's going to escalate beyond words over a piece of expendable hardware. And it's a drone we've already had shot down in the past, so recovering it would be of very little value. It's useful for keeping the war in the news and not letting people forget that Russia is the bad guy but not much more. It really feels like the Russians gave the Republican leadership and politicos a lot of money to try to undermine Ukraine aid support Maybe. There's also the interpretation that it's just sheer stubborn obstructionism and partisan stupidity. Sure, sending a bunch of hardware to Ukraine is the kind of opportunity that past conservatives could never have imagined being lucky enough to receive: field-test our stuff, destroy Russia without ever putting a single American life in danger, and give a massive pile of money to all the defense contractors. But it's an opportunity for a democrat to win, and we can't have that! You can't have pesky things like principles if you want to win elections, and if winning in 2024 means violating every conservative principle then conservativism will just have to be sacrificed.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 12:54:15 GMT -5
Post by mikosann on Mar 15, 2023 12:54:15 GMT -5
Like everything conservatives are doing these days, its just reactionary partisan bullshit. Had Biden sat on the fence they would be screaming how he is weak and letting Russia rebuild the evil empire. Since his policy is one of military support and aid, they are against it. Really is as simple as that. Republicans, and all politicians really, but mostly these republicans today have absolute zero shame. They take their cues from Fox news opinion hosts and a base of voters that are increasingly paranoid, clueless, and close minded to put it mildly.
Having said that, I don't wish for escalation between U.S. and Russia. Maybe an unpopular opinion here but I'm not exactly thrilled with the prospect of WWIII happening in my lifetime, especially as I have children coming up on draft eligible ages. I find it just a tad concerning hearing calls for escalation coming from the left having come of age myself in the aftermath of Iraq and seeing the consequences of that war on family members that served there both during and after "mission accomplished".
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 14:01:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Disciple of Fate on Mar 15, 2023 14:01:39 GMT -5
The draft is incredibly unlikely to return. Escalation is risky, but then it becomes a question of how much Ukrainian blood it is worth avoiding.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 14:34:52 GMT -5
Post by Peregrine on Mar 15, 2023 14:34:52 GMT -5
Yeah, there's zero chance of the draft coming back. The military doesn't want people who don't want to be there, and long before we reach the level of desperation where the draft is needed the war will have gone nuclear and ended civilization.
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Haighus
Ye Olde King of OT
Posts: 874
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 14:52:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Haighus on Mar 15, 2023 14:52:33 GMT -5
Yeah, there's zero chance of the draft coming back. The military doesn't want people who don't want to be there, and long before we reach the level of desperation where the draft is needed the war will have gone nuclear and ended civilization. Eh, I worry enough could survive a nuclear exchange to allow the war to continue, probably driven by revenge at that point. Major population centres would mostly be devastated, but large areas between these would be broadly unaffected. If enough existing leadership remains then a war effort can be organised. Maybe the belligerent populations would be cowed into peace, but it only takes one to have the will to fight on to force the war on into an attritional affair like the World Wars. A nuclear winter of any significance almost certainly wouldn't happen.
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Ukraine
Mar 15, 2023 17:01:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Disciple of Fate on Mar 15, 2023 17:01:02 GMT -5
Given the logistical nightmare a nuclear war would present, if there is anyone left in fighting shape, they won't have the ability to keep going for more than a few days with what they have on them.
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